Odd Situation

[janetgeorgia]

I am finding myself in an odd situation, one that does not really fit into any of the categories here.

I am from Georgia and i have family living all over down south. 5 years ago i moved up to PA, and i have never really been happy here.

Then, about 3 years ago, I had a one night stand with a guy here and i got pregnant. Now my child is going to be 2 next month and I want to move down south to be with my family.

My childs father and i came to an agreement when the child was born that we would switch and each have him for 3 nights a week. of course one of us gets 4.

I have been wanting to move down south for years but just now am financially at the point where i could afford it but he told me when the child was born that there was no way i can take HIS child south. He told me I can move all i want but to leave the kid here.

any advice??

 

[jacksgal]

Your screwwed! He can certainly blocked any move as you will be taking his child. If by some means you are able to move (via a court order) you can expect to pay for travel expenses for his visits with child. Talk to your lawyer as this move will be no simple task. Let me ask this though. Did this man sign the birth acknowledgement?

 

[Proserpina]

It may be moot, to be honest - Dad obviously has an ongoing close relationship with kiddo and even if he didn't sign the AOP, I think it's pretty much guaranteed that he'd march right into court and establish paternity and have kiddo returned to PA should Mom actually move.

OP, you need to be offering Dad a VERY generous long distance parenting plan and offering to pay for all the costs of transporting kiddo back and forth if you are to stand any chance....

..and to be honest I'm not seeing it happen. Sorry.

 

[army judge]

I am finding myself in an odd situation, one that does not really fit into any of the categories here.

I am from Georgia and i have family living all over down south. 5 years ago i moved up to PA, and i have never really been happy here.

Then, about 3 years ago, I had a one night stand with a guy here and i got pregnant. Now my child is going to be 2 next month and I want to move down south to be with my family.

My childs father and i came to an agreement when the child was born that we would switch and each have him for 3 nights a week. of course one of us gets 4.

I have been wanting to move down south for years but just now am financially at the point where i could afford it but he told me when the child was born that there was no way i can take HIS child south. He told me I can move all i want but to leave the kid here.

any advice??

You said that YOU and DAD came to an agreement, right?

Was this 'agreement' ever reduced to writing and ordered by a court?

Or was this an 'agreement' between the two of you, WITHOUT the benefit of the court?

If there is NO COURT ORDER, you can take the child anywhere you wish.

If DAD was stupid enough never to get a court adjudicated paternity and a court order regarding custody and child support; you can take YOUR child to Georgia or Timbuktu.

But, you had better get moving before Dad wises up and gets you served!

Dad is a dummy and has no say in what you do with YOUR child.

DAD is nothing but a legal stranger to YOUR child.

If the all of the above is TRUE, you need read NO MORE BELOW.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If all of the above was NOT TRUE, then the rest of this applies!
You want to go south, nothing is stopping YOU.

You only need to relinquish your custody arrangement.

You can probably get him to let you have the kid for a few weeks in the summer.

I don't know how much child support he'll request, but nothing is stopping YOU from going anywhere.

Get the court custody agreement changed, arrange for support payments to dad, and you're on your way!

 

[janetgeorgia]

he does acknowledge that it is his child, but there is no written agreement as to custody. it was just a spoken agreement. he has my last name, not his fathers. his father does pay minimal child support though. . . . like i mean he pays 300 a month. that is it.

 

[janetgeorgia]

well actually i was planning on offering to transport the child up to pa and then maybe meet the father halfway when it is time for him to return to me. and i was planning on dividing the childs time between us 50/50. i would have him for the wintertime (just so he would not have to deal with 5 feet of snow) and the father could have him for the summer time (so he would not have to deal with 110 weather). i mean it sounds fair to me. . . .

 

[jharris352]

The child is yours and yours alone. MOVE. If he has not gone to court to get the paternity established or if there was never a Acknowledgement of Paternity signed then there is no custody arrangement. Further if he waits until you move to establish paternity he will have to do so in the jurisdiction where you live (Georgia). In that case he will have to first establish paternity and then legitimize the child under O.C.G.A. 19-7-20.

Move before he starts and action up there.

 

[army judge]

he does acknowledge that it is his child, but there is no written agreement as to custody. it was just a spoken agreement. he has my last name, not his fathers. his father does pay minimal child support though. . . . like i mean he pays 300 a month. that is it.

Then he IS a LEGAL stranger to YOUR child.

He has not legally established his paternity.

There is no custody order in effect.

There is no court ordered support in effect.

You, and you alone, are the only person that possesses any legal right to YOUR child.

The $300 he has been paying won't count towards child support, because it hasn't been court ordered.

You have no worries over this matter.

You can, and should, take your child anywhere you desire.


I'd do that ASAP, however, because as dumb as he's been; he could wise up very soon.

One final piece of advice: Do not let him have the child, without the benefit of a court order. If you do, you might have a hard time getting him to give the child back to you.

You should also stop accepting any money (or anything else), until & unless there is a court order in effect.

You don't need the court order, he does.
You'd be better off without one.
If you want to live near your family in GA, don't pursue a court order.

When he does (if he does), your life could get very complicated!!!

 

[Proserpina]

Look. Technically yes - Mom is the only legal parent and can do whatever the heck she wants with her child. HOWEVER....

This is not the usual case we see here where non-adjudicated Dad has had no contact; this is a case where n-a Dad has had regular contact for the child's entire life (albeit so far a short life). They have virtually a 50/50 timeshare.

Sure, Mom can move. And Dad will likely march right into court and not only file for custody and visitation, but request that his child is returned to PA in the interim.

And his request WILL likely be granted.

Also if Mom starts withholding visitation (I forgot who suggested that) - even though there is no court order for visitation - she will likely get dinged very badly in court if Dad raises a fuss.

OP, speak with a local attorney. I believe you're about to place your own custody in jeopardy.

 

[army judge]

Look. Technically yes - Mom is the only legal parent and can do whatever the heck she wants with her child. HOWEVER....

This is not the usual case we see here where non-adjudicated Dad has had no contact; this is a case where n-a Dad has had regular contact for the child's entire life (albeit so far a short life). They have virtually a 50/50 timeshare.

Sure, Mom can move. And Dad will likely march right into court and not only file for custody and visitation, but request that his child is returned to PA in the interim.

And his request WILL likely be granted.

Also if Mom starts withholding visitation (I forgot who suggested that) - even though there is no court order for visitation - she will likely get dinged very badly in court if Dad raises a fuss.

OP, speak with a local attorney. I believe you're about to place your own custody in jeopardy.

When people speak of technicalities, they know not of the law.

There are no technicalities insofar as the law is concerned. Those technicalities are due process, fundamental fairness, et al... Those are constitutional gurantees. Those technicalities are the things of which ultimately comprise supreme court decisions. Those are the things our founders bequeathed us, our military have died to preserve, and many have risked it all to get here.

As one, proud to have been allowed to wear our nation's uniform for almost three decades, those weren't technicalities for which I fought.

That baby belongs to that mother.
That is the risk of procreation without benefit of marriage.
That male bully, that presumes himself to be a father, has no legal standing.
The mother does.
He can't dictate anything to her.
Let him come to GA and fight for visitation and prove his alleged paternity.

She doesn't have to prove her maternity.

Nine months in her womb illustrates her love for that child.

It also gives her legal standing to take her child anywhere she desires.

One thing is for sure, no GA court will order her and her child repatriated to PA; in a bizarre twist on the Dred Scott decision.

Nor will any PA court have any authority to order her return to PA, once she has left that state.

That woman no longer needs to live in fear of that deadbeat bully.

 

[Proserpina]

When people speak of technicalities, they know not of the law.

And you've been proven wrong before, AJ, when it comes to family law.

As one, proud to have been allowed to wear our nation's uniform for almost three decades, those weren't technicalities for which I fought.

And this is relevant...how? It's NOT. STOP IT.

That baby belongs to that mother.
That is the risk of procreation without benefit of marriage.
That male bully, that presumes himself to be a father, has no legal standing.
The mother does.
He can't dictate anything to her.
Let him come to GA and fight for visitation and prove his alleged paternity.

AJ, seriously - do you have any idea how family court actually works?



Because if you do, you're not showing it here.

She doesn't have to prove her maternity.

Correct. This has never been in dispute.

Nine months in her womb illustrates her love for that child.

No, it does not.

It also gives her legal standing to take her child anywhere she desires.

Correct. It does not mean, however, that Dad cannot march into court - in PA - the same day and file. And believe me, his voice WILL be heard.

One thing is for sure, no GA court will order her and her child repatriated to PA

Because GA does not have jurisdiction to order a darned thing. You know this. Don't play around here.

Nor will any PA court have any authority to order her return to PA, once she has left that state.

MOM will never be ordered back to PA, that's correct. But kiddo? If Dad files within a timely fashion kiddo may well be ordered back to PA. Because PA will retain jurisdiction.

That woman no longer needs to live in fear of that deadbeat bully.

What deadbeat bully? You mean this man who has had a CONSTANT and ongoing relationship with his child?

 

[Proserpina]

(oh snap...it occurred to me....AJ, you DID see that OP is actually still residing in PA, right? That she's not actually in GA at the moment?)

 

[PQN2]

All custody/parentage/support will be decided in PA, unless dad sits on his hands for 6 months after she moves to allow her and the baby to establish residency in GA.

AJ- How is your advice in the best interest of the child? The child has an ongoing relationship with both parents. Family court is very likely to insist that dad be allowed to continue to be heavily involved in his child's life (blocking the child from relocating).

OP- AJ is right in that, in the absence of court orders, you can legally move to GA with your child. However, if Dad files in court, you will be likely ordered to return the child to PA and the jurisdiction of the court. Can you afford to give up your apartment/job/etc in PA and move to GA, only to have to turn around and move back within a few weeks or months?

Your best bet is to sit down with dad. Even the most generous long distance plans only get the ncp to 35%. You could try and offer dad a 4-day weekend each month, plus half of every Christmas break, all of every Spring Break, and all but two weeks of the summer. Expect to have to pay all travel expenses for your child to travel to see Dad (until your child is 18).

If dad fights this (especially if he has an attorney), he will likely be able to prevent the move of his child, you can take your chance in court but you are more likely to be successful in mediation.

 

[Proserpina]

All custody/parentage/support will be decided in PA, unless dad sits on his hands for 6 months after she moves to allow her and the baby to establish residency in GA.

AJ- How is your advice in the best interest of the child? The child has an ongoing relationship with both parents. Family court is very likely to insist that dad be allowed to continue to be heavily involved in his child's life (blocking the child from relocating).

OP- AJ is right in that, in the absence of court orders, you can legally move to GA with your child. However, if Dad files in court, you will be likely ordered to return the child to PA and the jurisdiction of the court. Can you afford to give up your apartment/job/etc in PA and move to GA, only to have to turn around and move back within a few weeks or months?

Your best bet is to sit down with dad. Even the most generous long distance plans only get the ncp to 35%. You could try and offer dad a 4-day weekend each month, plus half of every Christmas break, all of every Spring Break, and all but two weeks of the summer. Expect to have to pay all travel expenses for your child to travel to see Dad (until your child is 18).

If dad fights this (especially if he has an attorney), he will likely be able to prevent the move of his child, you can take your chance in court but you are more likely to be successful in mediation.

Excellent post.

 

[army judge]

Residency is established the day you set foot in a state and set up a household (even if it's under a bridge)!!!

A PA court has no jurisdiction over a resident of another state, longarm statutes, notwithstanding.

Obtaining jurisdiction over anyone, outside the geographical boundaries if said state, is difficult; if not impossible.

This is has nothing to do with family law.

It has everything to do with jurisdiction.

If the man (he hasn't proven his paternity), wants to fight for custody and assert his alleged paternity, once mom is in GA; that is the situs where the action has to be brought. That is the only place she can be served, and only pursuant to process of GA law.

PQN2, I'm not denying anyone anything.

I'm merely giving a person legal advice. I'm not a psychologist or therapist or a life coach. I dispense legal advice. It can be heeded or disregarded.

Despite your outcries and contraventions, PA has no say, once she leaves their commonwealth. Heck, until a lawsuit is filed, no court has any say or authority over where this mother decides for her family to reside.

I've said it before, I'll say it again; if a man wants a voice in a child's life, get married to the woman before procreating.

 

[PQN2]

Residency is established the day you set foot in a state and set up a household (even if it's under a bridge)!!!

A PA court has no jurisdiction over a resident of another state, longarm statutes, notwithstanding.

Obtaining jurisdiction over anyone, outside the geographical boundaries if said state, is difficult; if not impossible.

This is has nothing to do with family law.

It has everything to do with jurisdiction.

The UCCJEA will come into effect. It defines the child's "home state" -- "the state where the child lived with a parent or a person acting as a parent for at least 6 months immediately before the custody action was filed. Home state jurisdiction exists in the child's current home state or in a state that was the child's home state within 6 months before the case began." This puts the court case firmly in PA.

For a full explanation: http://www.bwjp.org/files/bwjp/articles/uccjea revised 10-08.pdf

Dad can file in PA to establish paternity/custody/support and the case will be held in PA as it is the child's home state.

 

[Proserpina]

AJ, you're plain wrong here. I don't honestly understand why you can't see what we're saying.


PA will retain jurisdiction until residency is legally established in Georgia. This will NOT happen immediately. It will NOT happen overnight. It will NOT happen as soon as Mom moves and finds a home in GA.

If Mommy moves to GA tomorrow, PA still has jurisdiction.

This time next week, PA still has jurisdiction.

In one month's time, PA STILL has jurisdiction.

I don't get it, AJ. What are we not explaining?

 

[army judge]

AJ, you're plain wrong here. I don't honestly understand why you can't see what we're saying.


PA will retain jurisdiction until residency is legally established in Georgia. This will NOT happen immediately. It will NOT happen overnight. It will NOT happen as soon as Mom moves and finds a home in GA.

If Mommy moves to GA tomorrow, PA still has jurisdiction.

This time next week, PA still has jurisdiction.

In one month's time, PA STILL has jurisdiction.

I don't get it, AJ. What are we not explaining?

PA has no jurisdiction, as no case has been filed.

You're confusing residency with voting and a myriad of other things.

It used to take a period of time to establish residency.

This practice was changed decades ago.

Many hold the misconception that residency requires a length of time and other activities.

It doesn't.

Here are a few examples and illustrations of the law, today!

You might have the establishment of residency confused with residency for attending an institution of higher education.

Florida Statutes, Chapter 222
HOMESTEAD AND EXEMPTIONS
Method Of Setting Apart Homestead And Exemptions
222.17 Manifesting and evidencing domicile in Florida
(1) Any person who shall have established a domicile in this state may manifest and evidence the same by filing in the office of the clerk of the circuit court for the county in which the said person shall reside, a sworn statement showing that he or she resides in and maintains a place of abode in that county which he or she recognizes and intends to maintain as his or her permanent home.

(2) Any person who shall have established a domicile in the State of Florida, but who shall maintain another place or places of abode in some other state or states, may manifest and evidence his or her domicile in this state by filing in the office of the clerk of the circuit court for the county in which he or she resides, a sworn statement that his or her place of abode in Florida constitutes his or her predominant and principal home, and that he or she intends to continue it permanently as such.

You are considered a Georgia resident if you have a permanent place to live in Georgia and except for infrequent, brief absences, you have been in Georgia for thirty- (30) days.
http://motor.etax.dor.ga.gov/motor/registration/newgares.asp

The following factors are considered in determining California residency (a minimum of 3 must be provided):
Required Documents For Residence Determination (Education Code: 54024(e))
1. Ownership of residential property or continuous occupancy of rented or leased property in California
2. Registering to vote and voting in California
3. Licensing from California for professional practice
4. Active membership in service or social clubs
5. Presence of spouse, children or other close relatives in the state
6. Showing California as home address on federal income tax form
7. Payment of California state income tax as a resident
8. Possessing California motor vehicle license plates
9. Possessing a California driver's license
10. Maintaining a permanent military address or home of record in California while in the armed forces
11. Establishing and maintaining an active California bank account
12. Being the petitioner for a divorce in California; Conduct inconsistent with a claim of California

We disagree.

 

[Proserpina]

We disagree.

Then do the OP a favor, and please back up your stance with statute and/or case law.


PQN already provided UCCJEA information.

This is not military or criminal law. This is family law, and it DOES make a difference.

 

[army judge]

Then do the OP a favor, and please back up your stance with statute and/or case law.


PQN already provided UCCJEA information.

This is not military or criminal law. This is family law, and it DOES make a difference.

An explanation with examples (and statutes) was provided at 02:00AM.

It is above your post at 2:13AM!