Is this an independent contractor situation?

[LawsLaws]

Jurisdiction

California

Dear forum,

I intend to give a reward money to people that find a property for me. I have advertised it on Craigslist on the gig section, however, I don't want people to believe that this is a job or anything or that they get benefits or their taxes are gonna be withheld. Also, I am not a registered business. These will only get paid if a transaction successfully goes through with that property-owner.

Please answer the following questions:
1. Is this a independent contractor situation?
2. While, I am not a registered business or a business owner, can I hire independent contratcors?
3. How else can I protect myself, and most importantly not to mislead people?
4. What is the best course of action in this situation?

So far, in order to protect myself, upon being contacted, I reply with the following:

Although, this is not an employment opportunity nor a job offer; it is made to be supplemental to what you currently do. You will still maintain the responsibility of looking out for yourself in every way including but not limited to financially, legally, health-wise, and filing of your taxes properly as that is not done for you. You will not be reimbursed of your expenses of any kind, as this is not an employment or a job.

What does your activity consist of?

Driving as you normally do, but with propose.

Where does it get exciting?

Suppose, you find 10 houses that fit my criteria, and 7 of those lead to a complete and successful transaction with the homeowner. You could get up to $7,000.00 (usually in form of check). If the house you located lead into a successful transaction, you will then get a bonus of up to $1,000.00 (usually in a form of check), with an opportunity of learning investments and finances from me.

Let me know if you're interested! I am indeed excited!

**Current, past, and future communications (All communications) in any and all forms including but not limited to text message, letter, email or oral, including but not limited to guidelines, articles, tips, and policies do not create contract rights, and/or employment rights, and/or employer-employee relationship. This is not employment, and an employer-employee relationship does not exist, neither expressed nor implied. No contractual obligation is expressed nor implied by All Communications. This relationship can be terminated by either party/parties at any given time with or without reason. This is not employment, nor is it a job; thereby, there will be no benefits. You, as the responder to the post, will bear your own liabilities and responsibilities including but not limited to tax responsibilities, insurance, etc, and they shall remain solely yours. No liability or responsibility shall be transferred to the poster.

Thanks for your time in advance.

Cheers.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

1. Yep
2. Of course, you can. It would be no different than if you paid a guy to paint your house.
3. Be very clear both verbally and in writing when you talk to the applicants.
4. See #3

 

[LawsLaws]

1. Yep
2. Of course, you can. It would be no different than if you paid a guy to paint your house.
3. Be very clear both verbally and in writing when you talk to the applicants.
4. See #3

Thanks for the reply!

What did you think of the terms I had? Would you recommend me adding an arbitration clause?

Cheers.

 

[LawsLaws]

I'd also appreciate if you gentlemen participated in my thread: @army judge, @adjusterjack, and @Michael Wechsler.

Thanks in advance.

 

[LawsLaws]

Would anybody recommend doing an actual contract with the applicants? and please reply with why you believe that to be a good course of action?

Cheers.

 

[Zigner]

Thanks for the reply!

What did you think of the terms I had? Would you recommend me adding an arbitration clause?

Cheers.

If you really want to get that deep in to it, you NEED an attorney on board.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Would anybody recommend doing an actual contract with the applicants? and please reply with why you believe that to be a good course of action?

Cheers.

If you are going to be creating contracts for employees you need to lawyer.

 

[LawsLaws]

If you really want to get that deep in to it, you NEED an attorney on board.

Hi Zigner,

I appreciate the reminder.

It's just that, for the time being, and for a matter as simple as justing giving people reward money for finding something for me, I don't see it feasible or necessary, but I could be wrong.

To be more clear, I am not hiring anyone for any job; I am simply giving directions to people to find a property for me and get a reward money for it. I honestly believe I wouldn't even need a contract for this and that perhaps I am overthinking it.

 

[LawsLaws]

If you are going to be creating contracts for employees you need to lawyer.

Okay. so since the responders won't become employees as I am not a business; I won't need a contract, and my disclosures suffice? Is that what you mean?

Cheers.

 

[Zigner]

What, exactly, do you mean by "find property"?

 

[army judge]

I don't want people to believe that this is a job or anything or that they get benefits or their taxes are gonna be withheld.

The only useful comment I could add to what others have said is you reside in California.

California can find a myriad of ways to turn contractors into employees.

I could write pages on why your state does this, but that wouldn't insulate you from miscreants bent on extracting money from anything possessing money.

Rather than contractor versus employee, you might look at this as a reward.

If you lost your puppy, Cuddles, you'd make a poster and inform anyone that finds Cuddles that you'll pay a $200 reward for the safe return of Cuddles.

You might wish to offer a "finders fee" or "reward" for pointing you in the direction of a property.

You could also inform potential "finders" that the reward or bounty can only be paid ONCE, and once paid the person is no longer allowed to contact you.

A way that you could insulate yourself is to work with various services that inform investors about tax and lender foreclosures.

Good luck in your financial endeavors, mate.

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

Okay. so since the responders won't become employees as I am not a business; I won't need a contract, and my disclosures suffice? Is that what you mean?

Cheers.

No that is not what I mean. And you don't have to be a "business" to have employees.

What I meant and in fact what I wrote was, if you are going to have a contract with people you need to have a lawyer to create that contract.

As far as needing or not needing a contract we have very little idea of exactly what you are doing. If I were you I'd talk to a local lawyer.

 

[LawsLaws]

What, exactly, do you mean by "find property"?

Basically there are specific types of houses that I am interested, size, exterior color, etc. I'll give a list of criteria to the applicant to check the house against; if it fits the criteria, they will take a picture of the exterior of the house, and send it to me along with its address. Just to clarify, they won't be making contact with the homeowner.

I will then reach out to the owner. If it lead to a completed transaction and purchase of the house, I will then give the reward money to the finder.

 

[LawsLaws]

The only useful comment I could add to what others have said is you reside in California.

California can find a myriad of ways to turn contractors into employees.

I could write pages on why your state does this, but that wouldn't insulate you from miscreants bent on extracting money from anything possessing money.

Cheers mate! Thanks for the reply.

You are right about CA, I am beginning to understand it even more.

Rather than contractor versus employee, you might look at this as a reward.

If you lost your puppy, Cuddles, you'd make a poster and inform anyone that finds Cuddles that you'll pay a $200 reward for the safe return of Cuddles.

This is exactly my position which you understood correctly; I am offering a reward money of up to x amount for each property found by the applicant that lead to a purchase.

In my disclosures, I have written that no contractual obligations exist. I have attached that disclosure to the end of this post. Please let me know what you think.

You could also inform potential "finders" that the reward or bounty can only be paid ONCE, and once paid the person is no longer allowed to contact you.

What if I intend to keep it ongoing? meaning, every-time they find me a property that leads to an acquisition, I pay them a finders fee.

how would that effect the whole scenario?

A way that you could insulate yourself is to work with various services that inform investors about tax and lender foreclosures.

I should. I will look for some. Thanks for the idea.


Disclosure I made:

"**Current, past, and future communications (All communications) in any and all forms including but not limited to text message, letter, email or oral, including but not limited to guidelines, articles, tips, and policies do not create contract rights, and/or employment rights, and/or employer-employee relationship. This is not employment, and an employer-employee relationship does not exist, neither expressed nor implied. No contractual obligation is expressed nor implied by All Communications. This relationship can be terminated by either party/parties at any given time with or without reason. This is not employment, nor is it a job; thereby, there will be no benefits. You, as the responder to the post, will bear your own liabilities and responsibilities including but not limited to tax responsibilities, insurance, etc, and they shall remain solely yours. No liability or responsibility shall be transferred to the poster."

 

[LawsLaws]

No that is not what I mean. And you don't have to be a "business" to have employees.

What I meant and in fact what I wrote was, if you are going to have a contract with people you need to have a lawyer to create that contract.

As far as needing or not needing a contract we have very little idea of exactly what you are doing. If I were you I'd talk to a local lawyer.

Oh I misunderstood you.

My goal is mostly to make them understand that there is no contract between them and me, and no contractual obligation exist by either party.

This is my disclosure:

"**Current, past, and future communications (All communications) in any and all forms including but not limited to text message, letter, email or oral, including but not limited to guidelines, articles, tips, and policies do not create contract rights, and/or employment rights, and/or employer-employee relationship. This is not employment, and an employer-employee relationship does not exist, neither expressed nor implied. No contractual obligation is expressed nor implied by All Communications. This relationship can be terminated by either party/parties at any given time with or without reason. This is not employment, nor is it a job; thereby, there will be no benefits. You, as the responder to the post, will bear your own liabilities and responsibilities including but not limited to tax responsibilities, insurance, etc, and they shall remain solely yours. No liability or responsibility shall be transferred to the poster."

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

No contractual obligation is expressed nor implied by All Communications.

I'm not proofing your agreement but the above simply isn't true.

You are creating a contract with those that work for you.

 

[army judge]

What if I intend to keep it ongoing? meaning, every-time they find me a property that leads to an acquisition, I pay them a finders fee.

how would that effect the whole scenario?

Before you pay the reward, you have the recipient sign a document stating something to the effect: "accepting this monetary reward is full and final payment of any monies owed for finding the property, and extinguishes any other obligations and legal duties by either party, blah, blah, blah, boring, boring, boring words."

There should be no further obligation on either party for the event in question.

Disclosure I made:

"**Current, past, and future communications (All communications) in any and all forms including but not limited to text message, letter, email or oral, including but not limited to guidelines, articles, tips, and policies do not create contract rights, and/or employment rights, and/or employer-employee relationship. This is not employment, and an employer-employee relationship does not exist, neither expressed nor implied. No contractual obligation is expressed nor implied by All Communications. This relationship can be terminated by either party/parties at any given time with or without reason. This is not employment, nor is it a job; thereby, there will be no benefits. You, as the responder to the post, will bear your own liabilities and responsibilities including but not limited to tax responsibilities, insurance, etc, and they shall remain solely yours. No liability or responsibility shall be transferred to the poster."

I suggest you spend a few quid and ask a lawyer to evaluate your writing with a "lawyer letter".

One must spend money to ensure one's revenue stream is properly protected.

 

[LawsLaws]

I'm not proofing your agreement but the above simply isn't true.

You are creating a contract with those that work for you.

Got it. Thanks mate, really appreciate your time.

 

[LawsLaws]

Before you pay the reward, you have the recipient sign a document stating something to the effect: "accepting this monetary reward is full and final payment of any monies owed for finding the property, and extinguishes any other obligations and legal duties by either party, blah, blah, blah, boring, boring, boring words."

Briliant. That way every-time they find me a property, I'll have them sign a similar doc!

One must spend money to ensure one's revenue stream is properly protected.

The irony is that mate I'm often on your side of the table and now I find myself on this side.

Cheers for the reminder mate!!