senerio: State of PA: Mother and Father have shared custody. Child resides with mother. Father suspects drug and alcohol abuse in front of the child. Child and mutual friends have confirmed the suspicions. Also photo evident of mother in bars night after night drinking from pitchers.(understanding that those photos do not show mother putting child in direct harm just for informational purposes for the senerio) Children and youth had been called on mother and she was told to take a drug test and do a home evaluation. She claimed to live at her mothers house(where her address was but not where she was living. she was living with her boyfriend) They did the inspection at her mothers house and it passed. However the mother denied to take the drug test claiming she was too busy for over 5 weeks. When children and youth first contacted the mother she got very concerned and call the father telling him on the phone that she would fail the drug test and that her child would be taken from her. He told her that he would have the child reside with him if it came down to them taking the child. Later children and youth contacted the father demanding a home inspection and a drug test from him. The father complied within 48 hours. While the mother was able to put off her drug test for long enough that when she went and had it done(which she had to go to a rehab center to have it done where as the father had it done at his home the day of the home inspection) the mother came back clean. During the month the mother would not take the drug test children and youth told the father not to send the child back with the mother because she was not cooperating. Once the mother came back clean children and youth demanded the father give the child back to the mother. There is paperwork showing the dates on both mother and fathers drug tests. What should the father do now? He knows the mother is still using but how would he have to go about proving it if children and youth didnt work? Also if the test came back positive for drugs in her system what would happen?
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I have a question?pls help
- Thread Starter barbie77
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Proserpina
Moderator
Drug use in and of itself is not necessarily going to affect the current custody orders.
What is Dad's goal?
How old is the child?
What is Dad's goal?
How old is the child?
dads goal is to have proof of the mother using drugs and alcohol. Witnesses being mutual friends have seen the mother doing drugs and drinking with child in home and in the car. The child is 5. the father is concerned for safety of his child but does not know how to go about proving his case.
Proserpina
Moderator
Here's the problem.
Drug and alcohol use are not necessarily going to change custody. If Dad wants something to change, he is going to need proof.
Does Mom have any DUIs where the child was present? Can he show that her drug use is endangering the child?
What kind of drugs are we talking about?
Drug and alcohol use are not necessarily going to change custody. If Dad wants something to change, he is going to need proof.
Does Mom have any DUIs where the child was present? Can he show that her drug use is endangering the child?
What kind of drugs are we talking about?
Here's the question. how does dad obtain proof? dad doesn't know what all drugs because she was never tested when they were in her system. she was given enough time by children and youth to clean up. From what he was told by her marijuana and cocaine. There have been no DUI's with the child present however that only means she's yet to get caught. i do not see how drugs and alcohol use would not effect custody. children and youth kept the child from the mother for over a month based on accusations that were never proven of drugs and alcohol abuse. the only "proof" that he has that there would be anything wrong with the mother are the countless photos he has of her drinking in excess(which are nowhere near considerable as evidence nor directly affecting the child) witness' testimonies of what they've seen (her drinking and doing drugs in her car with the child), and also the may bruises the child returns to the father with. In one particular instance the child was asked how she got the bruises and she said that her mommy had pushed her up the stairs because she wasn't going fast enough. The father takes pictures of her many bruises.
Proserpina
Moderator
Because alcohol use is not illegal. And drug use is not generally going to affect custody unless it has a direct effect on the wellbeing of the child. For what it's worth, marijuana can be detectable up to 30 days after smoking - so....if she tested clean, what does that tell you?
May I ask who you are in this equation?
But pictures don't prove how the bruises go there, do they?
And pictures of Mom drinking don't prove that the child is in danger.
See where I'm going with this?
like I had said earlier she was given over 30 days (from the time she was told she needed to take the test) to take her test.....which would mean that nearly ANY single drug would have been given enough time to clear her system from being detected. I know the pictures are worthless, I didn't say anything different. The main question in all this that I was asking is how does the father go about getting proof of all this? Children and youth again, since that really worked the first time, or courts, or private investigator? Or any suggestions? I think in my own opinion for whatever its worth that it would make more sense for a child to live with the parent that is not doing all these things around the child than the one that is.
Proserpina
Moderator
Frankly what you think may not even be relevant - which is why I asked one of the questions I did
As has been repeated over and over in these forums, Dad needs PROOF that his child is in danger.
As has been repeated over and over in these forums, Dad needs PROOF that his child is in danger.
Proserpina
Moderator
Without PROOF - be it via hiring a PI or another agency ordering Mom to be tested, there's not an awful lot Dad can do here.
so...if dad was to get children and youth involved again is there any way to ensure that she would be given the test timely without a 30day heads up to clean up? If not is there any way that the courts can have her tested on the spot? if so what would they consider as enough proof to do so? Also is there any way that the dad can get any type of assisted legal help or free legal help based of of income when the mother already has, from what he knows, the only free legal help in the state with North Penn. He wants to take her to court but is finding it hard to come up with the VERY large amount of money the lawyers want to take this type of case in this type of area.
jharris352
New Member
Unless you can show the children are being harmed even drug use is not going to necessarily change the custody arrangement. I'll be honest, I smell a rat here. You keep ignoring what is said to you in favor of "what can we do to catch her." We aren't here to help you catch her. Drug tests are voluntary, even when Family and Children come out to your house (more people should know that). If the children are not being left alone when she goes out, or neglected, or abused, then you don't have a case.
I suspect this is a thinly veiled attempt to get out of child support by trying to take the children. If the children are being hurt then act, else leave her alone and live your lives.
I suspect this is a thinly veiled attempt to get out of child support by trying to take the children. If the children are being hurt then act, else leave her alone and live your lives.
Proserpina
Moderator
In complete agreement.
OP, you are not reading what you've been told - even IF Mom is doing drugs, and even IF she tests positive, this does NOT show that the children are being endangered by her drug use.
nope. not the one here paying any support to anyone. Infact support has never been an issue for dad from what i know. it's really very simple. The dad feels he is better fit and can provide a better life for the child and is looking for ways to prove it. Thats all. Yes, maybe mom isn't lighting the house on fire with the child in it type unfit but you wouldn't think it would have to come to that for custody changes. I guess if drug use and drinking isn't enough to have custody changes. Maybe the question he should be asking is what is good enough then? He has more time, love, and money for the child. Is that a start? or does that not matter?
Proserpina
Moderator
He has to show one of two things - either a change in the child's circumstance or a reason why Mom is unfit to be the parent.
Honestly, pot use isn't a big deal in family court unless it's directly harming the child. Ditto alcohol.
So, how exactly is Daddy going to prove he has more LOVE for the child? Does he understand that money doesn't buy custody?
mom may not be in there minds unfit. Or he just does not have enough proof. There's no major changes in circumstances. The only thing is that the father wants to have the child fulltime because he feels he will provide a better life for the child. so that isn't enough to change custody. even if he can prove he can provie better circumstances for the child?
Proserpina
Moderator
Pretty much, in a nutshell.
Dad feeling that he's a better parent is not enough to convince a court to change custody.
This is not just Dad "feeling" he is a better parent. He "IS". He has more time for the child, has more money for the child, has a better home and home environment, better morals, better lifestyle, and can prove these things. He can give the child a better life and has the proof. Would the courts listen to something like that? I would appreciate it if someone gave me some answers on what he should do.
Proserpina
Moderator
No, he's a better parent according to him (well, you actually). This does not mean a judge will agree.
More money doesn't matter.
Better lifestyle doesn't matter.
Better home doesn't matter.
What is "better"? Is it about money? Is it about who has most?
Mom is currently providing an adequate home. To change custody at this point, Dad NEEDS - as you've been told - to do one of two things. Either prove a change in the child's circumstance, or prove that Mom is unfit.
It's become VERY apparent to me that Dads MUCH better off getting paidfor legal advice from a pro. than dealing with the headache he'd get here. What will probably happen in the next few years is mom will continue messing up and finally get caught putting her child in danger and Dad will easily win custody he should have in the first place...or say if that doesnt happen, which is unlikely, when she's old enough she will pick to live with Dad. If nothing else thankfully this isn't my problem.
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