Freedom of speech of students

[mmcoates]

My daughter was upset with her teacher at school and was discussing her dislike with another student in the school lunch line. Another student overheard my daughter and told the teacher in question. The teacher in question confronted my daughter and asked what was said and my daughter reply as she is instructed to never lie, just tell the truth. That she had said "Ms. Williams is a big fat ugly witch". Were talking about a fourth grade student speaking with her friends. The principal placed my child in in school suspension for disrespecting the teacher by making those comments to her friends in the lunch line. The principal agreed that my daughter did not confront the teacher and did not disrute any process at school. She also agreed that my daughter was not intentionally treating with disrespect her teacher. She simply was venting to her friends. We feel the schools action of placing her in in school suspension as a violation of her rights to freedom of speech. She was having a private converstation with friends and did not disrespect the teacher at any time while receiving discipline for missed homework (the reason why my child was upset), or at the time of the unfair discipline while exercising her right to speak with her friends as we see it.

Am I right in understanding her rights? Is she not protected from speaking her mind as long as she does not threaten or disrupt the class or school activities. What can I do, the school board will not address her rights? Who can I turn to? It's mild and there are much bigger reasons to speak you mind, but I still believe it my childs right to say what she wants (with respect to private converstaions) regardless if the content is appreciated or liked.

Before anyone bashes me for not being a good mother and not teaching my child right from wrong. We did discuss her using better judgement, and that saying something like that about someone was not nice. WE asked her how would she feel, and that should should have thought about that before she said anything, because once it leaves your lips you can't take it back and it may get around to the person your talking about. We used this case as an example. My concern is not if she was morally right or wrong, it is if she has a right to free speech (regardless if it's liked or appreciated) as long as she is not being disrespectful in her communications and actions with the teacher and not disrupting the class. My understand of the freedom of expression is it protects the most offensive of speech, it's one of our founding freedoms. By the way she has already decided this will be the topic of her social studies project - so maybe some good about her civic duties and rights will come of this. I also hope she has learned a valuable lesson that sometimes discression is a better part of value.

 

[mach375]

Sorry if this isn't much of a help, since I"m not an expert of law. But....
A school is not a democracy. This generally applies to the classrooms and during class periods. Lunch, snack, and recess breaks are usually considered an exception. During class, the students do not have the Freedom of Speech. However, it cannot be expected of kids to remain silent during breaks, lunch, reces, etc, nor can it be expected that kids remain silent the entire time they are on school property. It IS expected they remain silent during class.
I believe your child did nothing wrong, and actually was quite responsible (in telling the teacher what she said, knowing that she was likely to get in trouble for it--very brave!). I beileve that the teacher over-reacted tremendously. Suspension is reserved for the most egregious actions--fighting, graffiti, property destruction, etc. For the teacher to treat a private discussion, even if it is offensive to a thrid party (who, btw, was not involved in the conversation), on the same level as a fight or destroying school property is to pass the message to the child that very serious matters are not a big deal, for they receive the same punishment.
The proper response for the teacher would have been to call you (her parents) and discuss what your daughter said, thus leaving punishment to you. I can just about guarantee she would learn the lesson much more effectively if it was a parent that grounded her for a week (after a tongue lashing) than a teacher that suspended her for a few days!
While I don't neccessarily believe that this matter is something to raise a huge fuss over (as much as I believe anyone's consitutional rights are not to be taken lightly!!!!!!), I do think that you should discuss it with administration. Ask for a conference with you, the teacher and the principle. Ask if they both think this type of behavior warrants this type of punishment. Then ask what type of punishment they think is appropriate for more egregious behavior. Ask them if they thik they are sending the right message to the students. If you don't feel you are getting anywhere with the teacher, or the principle, I suggest that you tell them that if this sort of thing continues, you will pursue the next over-reaction much more zealously and possibly talk with the district superintendent. At the least, I would suggest that if the teacher truly believes this is appropriate punishment, that perhaps you look into placing your child in a different class.
I would certainly write a letter and mail it (rather than, say, have your daughter deliver it) to the teacher. Explain to her that while you understand she is upset about what your daughter did, your daughter has a right to express her opinions during her own time, ie. lunch, even if it is on shcool grounds. Tell the teacher that she should actually be proud of your daughter for coming forth and telling the truth in the face of certain punishment. And most importantly (IMO) ask her if she truly thinks the punishment fit the crime, and particularly if the teacher would be willing to accept the same equivilent punishment (suspension without pay) for complaining about her boss to another teacher while on coffee break. Ask her if she thinks this is a good lesson in punishment-to-crime ratio, since after all a teacher's job is not only to tech the three R's, but to provide instruction on life's lessons.

I guess basically what I'm saying is no, I don't think you have much to pursue here. I don't think the teacher necessarily violated any rights your daughter has. But I do think the teacher is WAY out of line in doling out punishment. I think that you should certainly make a lot of noise to the teacher and perhaps the administration over this ("nip it in the bud"), and let them know this will not be tolerated a second time. But I don't think you should look into legal action....at least not on this first offense. If you talk to the administration about this, I suggest mentioning that if this happens again, you WILL look into legal recourse.


FWIW, my wife is a high school history teacher.

 

[NYClex]

This reminds me of something... When I was in 7th or 8th grade we had an English teacher nobody liked, Mrs. Loach. Of course, privately, we all called her Mrs. Roach. Or even worse, Mrs. C...roach. One day my PT teacher, out of the blue, asked me where a certain book was he was looking for. And I blurted out: Oh, Mrs. Co... has taken it. He stared at me...
The embarrassment was enough punishment I think, at least I never got reprimanded or anything. But these were times when schools still kind of represented American values and freedoms. Today many schools have turned into little Gulags.

That brings us to the ugly witch. Legally the situation is a little more complilcated:
One Supreme Court once nicely said, in Tinker v. Des Moines Indep. Sch. Dist. (1969): students do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate."

With this decision, the Court recognized that the First Amendment right to free expression is an essential component of a student's academic experience.

However, this right can be limited in the school environment if the expression "materially and substantially interferes with the requirements of appropriate discipline in the operation of the school." In addition, students may not engage in "vulgar, lewd, obscene and plainly offensive speech" at school.

Here of course we get to the question that always will be contested: when does protected speech become merely vulgar or offensive speech that is not protected. I am pretty sure that Messrs. Mason and Madison, the Fathers of our Bill of Rights, would not have tolerated such behavior in school either. But to them it would have been more a moral question, rather than a legal one. I am sure they would not have minded if someone stood on the town common and had said: King George is a bad fat ugly moron (Sam Adamas was saying worse things about him). But they would have scolded their children if they had spoken about their teacher this way.

The point here is: we should teach our children that they have the absolute right to speek freely about their grievances and we should defend that right against any political correct school administrator or board, if necessary in courts. But we also should teach our children to do this with civility, therefore ruling out certain ways of expression.

Now, what could you do. I agree that the suspension looks too harsh a punishment to me. On the other hand it sends the message that this kind of language is not civil. To avoid sending the wrong message, that criticism of a teacher gets punished, you should address your daughter's reason for speaking this way about her teacher. If she has reasonable grievances, you should definitely seek an appointment with the administrator and the teacher and address these. If your daughter gets punished for her bad choice of words, her valid grievances need to get addressed, too. Otherwise the school really only teaches that bullyism wins.

Oh, one last thought: when I was teaching school many many years ago, I never accepted tattle-telling. I told the kids pretty clearly: I will ignore any tattle telling. And I did. Something these teachers should think about, too.