Forced out with no notice!!!

[jds32777]

This is the first time I have ever had to deal with a lawyer or anything on a civil matter, but here goes.

My fiance and I and her cousin were renting a 4 bedroom house for $975 a month, with a security deposit equal to the months rent. we never missed a months rent, were never late with rent. We were responsible for all utilities, and paid them with our rent check every month. In October my fiances cousin told us he wanted to move out, and since we couldn't afford the place on our own, we decided to let the landlord know we were going to start looking for a place. This was in the very beginning of October. So when we found a place that we liked and basically could have we called the landlord and told her that we found a place to move to and we could be out by the end of October. She says that she needs a written notice and that we are resaposible for Novembers rent. Okay we said, even though we told her in the very beginning of the month we were going to be looking to move. So went sent in the notice, and that notice would have been up on November 22 I think. Now when we talked to her again, she said she had people who were going to moving in but they couldn't move in until December 1. So we figgured we had the rest of the month to move and clean and make any resonable repairs. Flash forward to the week before Thanksgiving, and she's calling us two sometimes more times a day asking us when we can be out because she told the new tenants that they could have the place on the day the thirty day notice was up. November 25th, she changes the locks on us as we were moving things out of the house, making it so we cannot access the property even though we paid the months rent. Now she is saying we owe her $347 for damages, including changing the locks, on top of our $975 security deposit.

So what I am asking is, since she broke the lease by changing our locks, and moved other people in before the end of the month, making so we could not finish cleaning and repairs, even though the rent was paid through the end of the month, do I have a case to sue this woman for breech of contract or something? I just want back my security deposit and a pro rated amount of rent for the days we were not there. Is that asking too much?

 

[jharris352]

Oh yes, I'm sure Gail will come along and give you a helpful link to read so I'm not going to look this up but I'll give you the general scoop. Giving 30 day notice is not giving the landlord the right to change the locks. Further, if you paid the month of November, you can stay until December 1st. For some reason people don't understand what 30 days notice is (you aren't the first or the last).

Giving 30 days notice is a minimum not a deadline. You still get to stay for as long as you have paid and they accept rent. If you paid December's rent and she took it you could stay. She is still bound to the lease even with your 30 day notice pending.

What she did is called constructive eviction. When she locked you out of the apartment/house she likely committed a misdemeanor. Changing the locks can not be charged to your deposit. You can sue her for constructive eviction and ask for whatever damages you have incurred.

I think at least you should get your security deposit (since she didn't give you a chance to clean less any real damage), the pro rata rent you paid from the 22nd to the end of the month, and any monetary damages you might have suffered from being without your things, or having to move haphazardly. The landlord really screwed this one up.

 

[Gail_in_Georgia]

What type of lease did you have? Was this a year lease or a month to month tenancy?

Sounds like there was some confusion since the 30 day notice would have ended November 22 and it's likely that's when the landlord felt you would be moved out. She did notify you (quite a few times, it seems) that these folks would be moving in once your November 22 deadline had passed (you guys were the ones who came up with this date).

What's their reasoning for keeping your security deposit? If you were on a yearly lease, you broke the lease. That's why I asked what type of lease you had.

When you asked your landlord why your rent wasn't prorated for the month of November, what did she say?

Gail

 

[jds32777]

this was a month to month lease, and she didn't start calling us until the 22nd. there is a whole list of things she has down as for reasons for keeping the secuirty deposit, such as, 2 people cleaning for 10 hours at 10 dollars an hour. The people who moved in after us literally were moving in as we were moving out.

 

[jds32777]

and the whole reason the 22 was the date is becasue that was 30 days from the day we sent to 30 day notice

 

[jharris352]

My advice stands even with a month to month lease you had paid for the rest of the month. Your landlord isn't honest and it will come through if you sue her in small claims court.

 

[jds32777]

so you think its worth the 95.50 filing fee to sue her? i mean i don't have alot of expendable cash, which is why I'm on a free advice site and not in a lawyers office right now LOL

 

[Gail_in_Georgia]

Frankly, you need to think this through. Again, your 30 day notice implied that your lease ended on November 22.

Because tenants were moving in as you were moving out, I am going to assume that they began paying rent at that time. If so, you are certainly entitled to the prorated rent for that last week or so of November. A landlord cannot "double dip" (i.e., collect rents from two leases for the same rental unit).

In addition, it is not unusual that locks would be changed between tenants; however, tenants are no charged for this.

As for the other issues...Pennsylvania law requires that a landlord provide the former tenant with a list of damages (above normal wear and tear) that a security deposit was used to cover. If the tenant disagrees with this amount, the first step is to write what is known as a "demand" letter, i.e., disputing the amount, listing what they believe is their fair share and demanding that they receive this amount within a certain time period (say, two weeks after the landlord receives this).

If the landlord refuses or does not respond, the next step is filing a lawsuit, typically done in Small Claims:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/consumerism/small_pa.html

Good luck!

Gail

 

[jharris352]

I absolutely think it is worth suing her. Be sure in your complaint to keep it short but explain that she locked you out of your place (that's a big no no). You will recover the rest of November's rent just for that (plus the judge could hit her with some statutory damages: really locking a tenant out is BAD). Beyond that, her reasons for keeping the security deposit sound really weak. If the new people moved in as you were moving out she is just lying about the 2 people 10 hours at 10 dollars an hour routine for cleaning. A Judge is going to see right through that. Bring any proof you have of when you moved out (receipt for a truck or receipt for where you moved to).

I don't think she has a chance to keep any of your security deposit if she let someone move in as you were moving out. She can't prove you tore up the apartment and they didn't. The new tenants also have a problem because they can't prove what they did and what you did. This landlord is about to learn a very expensive lesson.

 

[jds32777]

If I go through with filing with the DJ, should I have a lawyer or do you think this is something I could really handle myself?

 

[Gail_in_Georgia]

Small claims court really do not require an attorney. Often the cost of one will negate any judgement one might receive.

I'd suggest writing the letter first and seeing how the landlord responds.

Gail

 

[jds32777]

I'm pretty sure how she is going to reply, but I will ask my fiance how she wants to handle it, thank you for all your help

 

[jharris352]

Gail, a thirty day notice does NOT imply that your lease ends at the end of the 30 day notice. Your 30 day notice should indicate what day you intend to vacate the property and it should be at least 30 days in the future from the day of notice.

A Notice of termination should say something like: (dated October 10th, 2009) We are hereby giving notice that we intend to vacate the premises on or before December 1st.

Given notice like that the landlord has at least 30 days of notice. You can give notice 6 months in advance 30 days is simply the minimum number of days notice that you must give. Furthermore, if this person paid November's rent and the landlord accepted it then there is a contract for the entire month of November. The landlord can not accept 30 days of rent and change the locks after 22 days. It just doesn't work that way.

Finally, even if the tenant gave notice that they intended to vacate on the 22nd, and ignore the fact they payed until December 1st. If the tenant fails to leave they are still the resident and are not a tenant holding over. The landlord MUST evict and can not change the locks.

I don't know where the idea that a 30 day notice changes the lease comes from. It is simply wrong. If they had no lease at all the landlord can not change the locks when they are suppose to be out. The tenant must voluntarily quit the property or the landlord needs a Writ of Possession or whatever it is called in your state to seize the property by force. Any other force able seizure is constructive eviction and is likely a misdemeanor. (Turning off utilities, locking the doors, etc).

I normally agree with you but I have to disagree on this one.

 

[jharris352]

You should be able to handle a small claims court suit yourself.

 

[mightymoose]

Wow... definitely sue her if you ever want to see your money again.
As was said above, regardless of the date you gave 30 days notice, you paid for the entire month of November. You should get your entire security deposit back plus any costs that you can prove with receipts... if you had to stay in a hotel, buy meals, etc.
You aren't on the hook for the cleaning since you were not given the chance to clean.

Your landlord has no defense here.

Also... at least by the way you described it, you were on the hook for November's rent because you did not actually give 30 days notice at the beginning of October. It sounds like you informed the landlord that you would start looking for a new place, but did not actually give notice that you were leaving at the end of October until you found the new place at the end of October. That is when your 30 days started and is why you were obligated for November.

 

[jds32777]

So okay, my fiance are wondering, should we send this landlord a letter explaining that we are in disagreement with her billings as they are and explain what our disagreements are, or should we just go file with the district justice right away? we want to get this taken care of as soon as possible, because I borrowed the money from my grandmother for the security deposit on the placed we moved into and I would really like to pay her back as soon as possible.

 

[Gail_in_Georgia]

I have already suggested doing the demand letter first. This may help you avoid going to court.

Gail

 

[jharris352]

I agree with Gail. Sending a demand letter (Certified) always makes it real to the other side that you are not just going to go away. Give her 10 days to pay up and tell her that she will owe your court costs if she looses. Many times this will avoid the fight all together. If she sends you a check and a letter for part of the amount beware, cashing that check will indicate your acceptance of that amount as settlement in full. Many people believe you can take that amount and still sue for the rest. You can't.