Ebay subsidiary files claim and possible collections. Is this Legal?

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pontiacratrod

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I am currently mixed up in a claim with a subsidiary of Ebay Japan that is doing business under an assumed name. To this moment i have attempted to reach customer support to fix technical issues so that i may follow protocol and refund the "buyer" but i am being stonewalled. Do i have a case if they attempt to refer me to collections?

here is the letter i sent Ebay and a good description of the case:

Ebay Inc Corporate Officer,

On January 23rd, a company with the Ebay handle "Flight2hnd" won item #110636980154, a 1964 Mercury Comet Dash piece for the total amount of $393. Almost immediately after payment i began receiving automated messages from the company requiring me to enter my shipment information into their online servers as well as clearly writing the item# on the box. I immediately contacted Ebay customer support because i am weary of buyers demanding information with automated messages. I received no feedback and no response. I mailed the package away with delivery confirmation (#9105128882300526371948) and insured it for the full amount of $393. The package was received at the Carson, CA location on January 31st. February 9th i received another automated message from "Flight2hnd" stating that the item was damaged and that they required a replacement or a refund. I responded to the company in shock because this was a metal dashboard with hard molded plastic mouldings and could not easily be broken. A lady from the company "Sekaimon" contacted me with pictures outlining the damage. The item was damaged on all four corners and the box was completely split open on one corner indicating that the package was crushed under an extreme amount of weight. This fact confused me because typical USPS shipping for insured priority mail would not subject packages to freight handling or excessive stacking of large heavy packages. Also in speaking with my local Postmaster I was informed that if a box was split open or broken open such as in this case, that they would place a sticker or label indicating that the box was open or damaged. In the pictures provided from "Sekaimon" of the box, there were no markings or labels indicating that any damage was present during the shipping process. I also question any individual or company who would accept a package that was broken open or crushed as they claim and wait ten days to inspect said package and file a claim. On February 12th, I opened an insurance claim with the USPS submitting all of the documents that I had plus the pictures that were sent to me of the item and the box. It was at this time that I noticed that the Paypal transaction related to item #110636980154 had been removed and the details were no longer available. About two weeks later I received a notice from the USPS claims department stating that I had provided insufficient information and that they needed me to provide proof of value. Unfortunately for me I discovered that the Paypal transaction page that had been removed was the information that I needed to provide to the post office. It was also at this time that I discovered that Ebay's Buyer Protection policy blatantly contradicts a sellers right to collect compensation from USPS insurance by forcing the seller to refund the buyer and accept the return of the damaged item or product. USPS insurance claim information clearly states that reshipping of said damaged item would negate any compensation and that the buyer should retain the item and turn over the item with the original packaging to their local post office. On March 25, growing tired of the situation I decided to cut my losses with the insurance claim and request the package back and issue a refund. On April 1st, the package was delivered to me at my work location. The company "Flight2hnd" had simply taken the original box with my original packing material and taped up the sides. Curiously there was no damage whatsoever in transit this time. I immediately attempted to issue them a refund following the instructions in the resolution center. The "issue a refund" button did not work because it was linked to the Paypal transaction detail page that had been removed. I contacted Ebay customer support and asked them to look into it. I spent an entire hour online with an agent who had no clue what I was talking about and in the end simply told me to just send them the money via a Paypal money request outside of the Paypal transaction and Ebay resolution center and then cancel the Paypal transaction so that I would be refunded all of the applicable fees. I found this advice to be unconscionable because I would have no proof that I fulfilled my end of the resolution and there would be no way for me to "cancel" the Paypal transaction without the details page. I sent a message to Paypal customer support by the end of April 1st requesting that they reinstate the page immediately so that I may fulfill a resolution case. I have yet to hear anything save for an automated response from Ebay customer support saying that they will get back to me. Throughout this entire process I have researched the companies involved immensely and spoken to many individuals whom have had direct contact with these companies and have inside information on them. In my original message to customer support I referred to many complaints about the "Flight2hnd" company and its many variations in Ebay's member forums. Since my message all of those postings have been removed. It was during this research that I noticed that "Sekaimon" had my active Ebay Auctions listed on their site for the consideration of their Japanese customers without my consent which is a violation of my seller's rights and a violation of the agreement I entered into with Ebay. It became clear after I learned the new information about all of these companies to what was going on. "Sekaimon" is in fact Ebay Japan whom lists items from Ebay US sellers without their knowledge to Japanese bidders. The company "Flight2hnd" which refers to a geographical airport location, and has hundreds of variations across the country is the bidder on the Ebay US end. When an item is sold the Ebay US seller accepts payment from one of these "Flight" companies. The US seller is instructed to clearly write the item# on the box and upload the shipping information to Ebay Japan's website. The "Flight" company variants merely receive the packages at their warehouses called "Shop Airlines America Inc." The Shipping service also located at these facilities named "Yamoto Transport" is a freight carrier that ships air direct to Japan utilizing bulk cargo loading techniques. This is where the seller writing the item# on the box is very important. The "Flight" variant company or "Shop Airlines America" never opens the packages. The packages are handed over to "Yamoto Transport" where they are loaded unopened in their original packaging into cargo boxes and shipped directly to an affiliate in Japan whom matches the item numbers to transactions and processes them accordingly. This is where my package and presumably many other sellers' packages were damaged in an attempt to cram as many boxes on a freight carrier destined for Japan as possible to save money. My item was received by the bidder i paid and then reshipped with my original packaging which should immediately void said buyer protection. In fact legally the company I am doing business with is merely an escrow to a customer in Japan, therefore buyer protection should not apply to "Shop Airlines America" or the "Flight" company variants as they are not "buyers." It is also my understanding that there is no buyer on the other side waiting for their money to be refunded by me as per typical for a regular Ebay transaction. Instead the buyer in Japan has already been compensated or may have never even paid because the item did not reach its destination intact. On March 27th I received an email regarding changes to Buyer Protection policies. In it I found the sentence "If an item is re-shipped after being received at the address in the Order details page or PayPal Transaction Details page, it won't be eligible for eBay Buyer Protection Policy coverage." I am astonished to find out that this was not already a stated policy. To this point I have made every effort to follow protocol and do right by Ebay policy and buyer standards. I have been a dedicated user since 2002 and a seller since 2004 and never experienced any problems with any aspect of Ebay's service. As a seller on the wrong side of this bad deal I am out $405 for the total including shipping and a damaged product that is now unsellable. When I checked all of the companies involved with the Better Business Bureau, I was shocked to learn that each company at each location variant was listed as reporting income up to 5 million dollars a year. It is clear that I am not dealing with an average bidder. It is also clear that Ebay is attempting to shroud these practices by utilizing many different names and companies. I don't believe that I should be held responsible for the damages involved in this case. I believe that since Ebay is in control of these companies either directly through Sekaimon aka Ebay Japan or indirectly through its connections with Shop Airlines America Inc & Yamoto Transport that Ebay is also responsible for implementing these practices and therefore should be responsible for reimbursement of payment to "Flight2hnd", not me. It should also be noted that this appears to be a direct violation of fair trading practices as Ebay is knowingly doing business under assumed names with the general trading community un-beknownst to them. Any company controlled, owned by, or affiliated with Ebay should also not be allowed to collect compensation in any resolution or claims cases from any sellers do to the lack of a fair adjudication process. I look forward to your response.
 
i usually read most posts, even long ones.
I could only get through about three sentences of your.
I hope someone tries to help you.
I've found that dealing with eBay issues, only eBay doesn't get burned.
 
I agree with the judge - your letter is too long and you need to get right to the point immediately. I skimmed it.

1. You are correct that buyer protection ONLY applies to the people involved in the transaction. If the buyer is a company purchasing for their client, unless the client bought the company and their rights, they are not a party to the transaction. There is a legal process to step into the shoes of a party but that's not really applicable here.

2. From the beginning of your post, I'm gathering that the buyer may have purchased your item and simply reshipped it to their buyer. There is no way for you to know what I think you believe happened - the package was damaged in transit to the second person.

Your post made me curious - Are you saying that eBay Japan is listing your items there and then facilitating shipping to them and then to a third party? Or are you not happy that eBay is distributing your US based posts onto all of their localized country versions?
 
I agree with the judge - your letter is too long and you need to get right to the point immediately. I skimmed it.

1. You are correct that buyer protection ONLY applies to the people involved in the transaction. If the buyer is a company purchasing for their client, unless the client bought the company and their rights, they are not a party to the transaction. There is a legal process to step into the shoes of a party but that's not really applicable here.

2. From the beginning of your post, I'm gathering that the buyer may have purchased your item and simply reshipped it to their buyer. There is no way for you to know what I think you believe happened - the package was damaged in transit to the second person.

Your post made me curious - Are you saying that eBay Japan is listing your items there and then facilitating shipping to them and then to a third party? Or are you not happy that eBay is distributing your US based posts onto all of their localized country versions?


Good grief, if you're just going to skim over a post, you might as well not ask questions because they are IN THE POST you skimmed through. The OP could have certainly used paragraphs to make it easier on the eyes though.

But yes these items are being listed on eBay japan. The items are sent to a US address that is obviously done by region dependent upon what airport "flight2" account is being used to purchase. That us address is a freight forwarder that will then send the items to their final destination in another country. This company never opens the package but damages the items when they forward them on to their final destinations because they are trying to stuff the containers to the brim in an effort to maximize their shipping costs. They don't care that many items get damaged in the process because of eBay's over relaxed buyer protection scam program they have going. This allows the freight forwarder to be careless when they re-ship since any damage falls on the responsability of the seller and not the buyer.

Freight forwarders are not something new to online sales by any means, however in those instances where the forwarder is not an affiliate with eBay, the freight forwarders address is considered the final destination. Why is it not the same for these buyers that are ebay partners? Their operation is identical except for the fact that the forwarders that are not associated with eBay do not routinely damage merchandise and they do not send items back with no packaging damaging the items in the process. This eBay affiliated forwarder seems to be using poor shipping methods as a standard operation of practice. Considering they are affiliated w/ ebay and using ebay's buyer protection while at the same time damaging items being returned by insufficient packaging, it seems to me that eBay is giving them special treatment and no matter what spin you put on it, I see it as eBay paying themselves out for lackluster service and using their buyer protection plan as a way to initiate this whole thing.

Thank goodness I sell items on eBay that will not work in japan because of region coding. This is yet another reason not to list anything of value on eBay.

And they wonder why Amazon is doing so much better than them...... eBay needs to fire their current bone head CEO because his "disruptive innovation" has been nothing but disruptive and ANYTHING but innovative.
 
Thank you for you "lengthy details falken76, I almost got suckered into a transaction with this shop airlines america.. thank goodness I lost the item that they won from me, before they could pay for it.. had to request a "cancel transaction".. Oh Psshh!
 
EBAY recently changed their seller refund requirements to a MINIMUM of 14 days from date of receipt. That would give a third party shipper time to receive the item, load it on their transport and get it to the destination. Sellers now can only choose between NO REFUND (bad marketing) or allow the 14 days. Did EBAY do this to aide their EBAY Japan deal?

I noted that when I ship USPS and choose insurance it is NOT USPS insurance, it is a slightly lower cost EBAY insurance. Ebay not only make a mint insuring packages (payments exceed claims) but by insuring via EBAY you are not insuring via the FEDERAL GOVT so there is no FEDERAL statue involved with bogus claims. IF the item was shipped using USPS insurance and the item was NOT damaged in shipment via the USPS but was damaged between the third party point of acceptance and the foreign delivery point, it would be fraud to claim damages against the federal govt. SO make sure you pay the extra 50cents and use the drop down box and select USPS insurance.
 
One of the problems with this Ebay practice is, A commonly used complaint by purchasers on the Japan end is "item not described as listed" the original seller, here in the US is on the hook for these also. They are forced into refunding the money without the return of their merchandise.
Since the seller never translated their American English listing into Japanese, if the listing in Japanese is not accurate, the Seller is held responsible for a description he had no control over.
 
EBAY recently changed their seller refund requirements to a MINIMUM of 14 days from date of receipt. That would give a third party shipper time to receive the item, load it on their transport and get it to the destination. Sellers now can only choose between NO REFUND (bad marketing) or allow the 14 days. Did EBAY do this to aide their EBAY Japan deal?

How is Sekaimon/ Shop Airlines eligible for buyer protection?

(sorry, can't post links)

Eligibility for eBay Buyer Protection:

Most transactions on eBay are covered by eBay Buyer Protection. However, transactions in these areas aren't covered:

When an item is shipped to another location after it's received by the buyer

Purchases compensated by a third party

Transactions on eBay sites other than eBay.com. (These may be covered by the resolution policies of those sites.)

Even if the damage was caused during shipping to Shop America Airlines, the "purchases compensated by a third party" clause (third party is the actual buyer) should preclude buyer protection. SAL makes it crystal clear that it is a third party purchasing the item on their website:

About our business
On behalf of millions of Japanese Buyers, we make a bid on eBay and pay to you via PayPal when we win the item in auction. The item you sent to our location is strictly inspected by our QA team. If the condition is OK enough, we re-ship it to Japan.
You have nothing to do with our customers in Japan. We handle everything.
All we ask is to make sure that the item ID(s) are on the label or the package when you ship the item. We receive thousands of box everyday and that will eliminate any chance of item misplaced.
Our business is supported by eBay and PayPal.
If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us.
 
It certainly seems clear to me, but from what I've seen in discussion threads ebay/PayPal seems to have a habit of issuing refunds without requiring Shop America Airlines/Sekaimon to return the item or somehow prove that it is still in the US. Could ebay be interpreting "compensated by a third party" to only mean a third party somehow directly paying the original seller?

My interest: just sold something to SAL and am wondering how to protect myself should things go pear-shaped. It seems like they clear most transactions legitimately, but when things go wrong ebay/PayPal often issues SAL a refund without requiring that the item be shipped back to the (original) seller. That certainly seems to be against ebay's policies, but I haven't found anything definite regarding 3rd parties, re-shipping, returns, etc for PayPal.

I'm in California, ebay/PayPal is in California, SAL is in California. Which would be the party to go after if Small Claims is the route?
 
I just sold an item on eBay and it looks like this same thing is starting to happen to me. I got a strange email claiming that the item I sold was damaged and there was another incomprehensible complaint about the item. I'm interested in compiling these stories to see if there's a trend. Results on Google suggest that there is, but I'd like to try to get them all in one place! I'd be interested in seeing how your selling experience compares to mine! Karen (karenlswim@hotmail.com)
 
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