Dealership Liability NH

[stevezo2]

Jurisdiction

New Hampshire

Recently I bought a brand new 2017 Honda Ruckus from a dealership in NH. I Went to pick it up in a mini cooper not knowing that laying it on its side might not be great for the scooter. The sales associate asked me how I was bringing it home, I told him, he asked how it was going to fit, I told him I was able to fit another scooter in the hatch of the mini before. Never once did the associate inform me that this may cause complications for the bike. In fact, the only thing I knew at the time would happen was that gas might leak onto the interior of the mini, so I asked if they had a syphon. They did not, so I went to pick one up at an autoparts store and syphoned the gas from the tank into a gas can upon returning to the dealership (the associate never instructed me to even do this). I complete the sale and the sales associate comes out to watch me put the bike in the car, not once helping nor saying anything about it resting on its side in the vehicle. I get the vehicle home and immediately experience a rattling sound when accelerating and it stutters while idling. I called them about the issue and they're charging me to have the bike picked up and are denying they didn't tell me to not load the bike in such a way. Also, I have noticed the oil is overfilled from the dealership service center. The bill of sale references a PDI was done, but with no details. Depending on the diagnosis this issue could be covered by my manufacturer's warranty. If the issue is not covered by warranty but is related to being laid on its side and/or having the oil overfilled, is the dealership at all responsible?

 

[Highwayman]

Once you take it off the lot you're responsible. If you transported it in an unsafe manner then that's on you.

Did you actually ride this thing before buying it?

 

[army judge]

If the issue is not covered by warranty but is related to being laid on its side and/or having the oil overfilled, is the dealership at all responsible?

The dealership bears no legal responsibility to instruct you how to transport your belongings.

The dealership is no more responsible for NOT instructing you that eggs can sometimes be broken in transit as would Safeway, Kroger, or Walmart for watching you roughly throw your groceries into your trunk.

Had the salesperson placed the vehicle in your car, or assisted you in doing so, there MIGHT be liability.

However, watching someone do something stupid, ill advised, or foolish doesn't obligate you to step in and advise the person how to do it better.

In fact, doing and saying nothing while someone is doing something ill advised is always best, because very few adults take kindly to being instructed by others.

The damage is solely of your doing, and the dealership bears no legal responsibility in helping you repair your mistakes.

 

[stevezo2]

However, watching someone do something stupid, ill advised, or foolish doesn't obligate you to step in and advise the person how to do it better.

In fact, doing and saying nothing while someone is doing something ill advised is always best, because very few adults take kindly to being instructed by others.

The damage is solely of your doing, and the dealership bears no legal responsibility in helping you repair your mistakes.

Hey, I'm looking for insight here (not judgement) for something that appears to be a gray area for me (ie, why I am here asking a question on this forum). The Ruckus was secured in the vehicle well and never moved once in transit and the associate did help my father and I maneuver it into place in our final adjustments. It is highly unlikely, if being layed on its side one way or another is the cause of the issue, that it has anything to do with the impact force of driving or the bike moving while driving. Most likely, if the issue is linked to being layed on its side, fluids moved from one place to another on the scooter. To assume that removing the gasoline would be enough to insure this not be an issue, at least for an average human with little knowledge of the mechanics of engines on bikes, is not stupid. How many average scooter purchasers would even think to remove the gasoline in this situation? I checked my owner's manual and spoke to Honda directly and nothing in their company literature about safe transportation of their motorcycles or scooters states a single thing about the risk involved with laying one on its side. This should be outlined somewhere, but it's not.

 

[army judge]

Hey, I'm looking for insight here (not judgement) for something that appears to be a gray area for me (ie, why I am here asking a question on this forum). The Ruckus was secured in the vehicle well and never moved once in transit and the associate did help my father and I maneuver it into place in our final adjustments. It is highly unlikely, if being layed on its side one way or another is the cause of the issue, that it has anything to do with the impact force of driving or the bike moving while driving. Most likely, if the issue is linked to being layed on its side, fluids moved from one place to another on the scooter. To assume that removing the gasoline would be enough to insure this not be an issue, at least for an average human with little knowledge of the mechanics of engines on bikes, is not stupid. How many average scooter purchasers would even think to remove the gasoline in this situation? I checked my owner's manual and spoke to Honda directly and nothing in their company literature about safe transportation of their motorcycles or scooters states a single thing about the risk involved with laying one on its side. This should be outlined somewhere, but it's not.

I stand by my answer.

 

[Highwayman]

It is highly unlikely, if being layed on its side one way or another is the cause of the issue...

But you don't even know what the actual issue is, i.e. what is mechanically wrong with the vehicle.

 

[stevezo2]

But you don't even know what the actual issue is, i.e. what is mechanically wrong with the vehicle.

I realize that, but I am planning ahead for a situation where the issue is linked to being layed on its side. This is currently a possible hypothetical scenario where I need to understand what Honda is responsible for (and why this isn't outlined anywhere in their company literature).

 

[stevezo2]

I stand by my answer.

Thanks for the awesome advice, pal.

 

[army judge]

This is how Ruckus owners transport their scooters:
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...

 

[stevezo2]

This is how Ruckus owners transport their scooters:
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View attachment 1298
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...

This is my first Ruckus, first motorized cycle of any kind, and I don't own a vehicle larger than a sedan. With my limited knowledge of engines, and zero input from the sales staff, of course I was going to go out and buy a trailer specifically designed for a scooter and a mini van with a hitch... Also, that particular set up is for people who travel long distances with their scooters. I was transporting the scooter 2 hours from the dealership ONCE. People come to this website for advice and help, not to be ridiculed for not sharing your same keen sense of logic. This is a forum where people ask questions about circumstances that are unclear to them. As an active member of such a website, I would advise you to learn how to more effectively (and empathetically) interact with other human beings.

 

[army judge]

This is my first Ruckus, first motorized cycle of any kind, and I don't own a vehicle larger than a sedan. With my limited knowledge of engines, and zero input from the sales staff, of course I was going to go out and buy a trailer specifically designed for a scooter and a mini van with a hitch... Also, that particular set up is for people who travel long distances with their scooters. I was transporting the scooter 2 hours from the dealership ONCE. People come to this website for advice and help, not to be ridiculed for not sharing your same keen sense of logic. This is a forum where people ask questions about circumstances that are unclear to them. As an active member of such a website, I would advise you to learn how to more effectively (and empathetically) interact with other human beings.

You stated your opinion.
Perhaps someone will take note of it.
Perhaps someone will find it beneficial.
I've lived on this planet for decades without advice from you.
Thanks for offering it, but I'll pass.
Good luck.

 

[adjusterjack]

People come to this website for advice and help, not to be ridiculed for not sharing your same keen sense of logic.

That's only partly right.

Quite often people come to this website (and others) for advice and help but they only want advice that's favorable to them and they get ticked off when they are told that their problem is of their own making (in other words, shoot the messenger) which is exactly what is happening to you.

Nobody is judging you or ridiculing you. They are just giving you the reality of your situation.

If you can't accept that you are welcome to go pay a lawyer $300 per hour to gently spoon feed it to you.

 

[stevezo2]

That's only partly right.

Quite often people come to this website (and others) for advice and help but they only want advice that's favorable to them and they get ticked off when they are told that their problem is of their own making (in other words, shoot the messenger) which is exactly what is happening to you.

Nobody is judging you or ridiculing you. They are just giving you the reality of your situation.

If you can't accept that you are welcome to go pay a lawyer $300 per hour to gently spoon feed it to you.

I'm ticked off by the manner in which this was explained to me from the get go. To call someone stupid immediately when giving advice is counterproductive. Not to mention the obvious insult thrown in by army judge with a picture of a van and a scooter trailer. No matter what you're undoubtedly going to say about the reality of the situation, that was flat out rude. Of course in an ideal situation I would have used a pick up truck or a trailer, but this wasn't an ideal situation. And my real question was always, doesn't the arrangement of the scooter during transportation seem like something an average person could easly mess up (whether or not they have secured the vehicle well)? I don't care if the dealership doesn't have to do anything in that situation, but from a moral standpoint, after getting the commission from a brand new bike, a few words of advice to a new bike owner is not a ridiculous concept. Hell I had to sign a form saying he told me I should wear a helmet, even though I live in NH where, by law, I don't have to. Even further, this is something Honda forces the dealership to do (the form had about 5 other items the dealership is supposed to explain to me. All items they are not required to tell me, but Honda has made a point to do so).If laying a bike on its side is so commonly known to be detrimental, why isn't this outlined in the Ruckus' manual section about properly transporting a vehicle, in Honda's company literature, or on this form? This is a question I keep asking here, and no one is actually answering. If you don't have an answer, that's fine. If you want to keep regurgitatinng the same buyer transportation responsibility stuff that's been said to me from the first response, you're not answering my question. This doesn't seem like a black and white situation to me. I'm sure paying an actual lawyer $300 an hour would garner me a real answer.

 

[army judge]

I'm sure paying an actual lawyer $300 an hour would garner me a real answer.

There you go, you have your answer, seek the counsel of a licensed lawyer in your jurisdiction for a $300 answer that will make you happy.

Good luck with your Ruckus, mate.

By the way, I'll give you $500 if you show me where I called you STUPID anywhere in this thread.

 

[stevezo2]

"However, watching someone do something stupid, ill advised, or foolish doesn't obligate you to step in and advise the person how to do it better."

 

[army judge]

"However, watching someone do something stupid, ill advised, or foolish doesn't obligate you to step in and advise the person how to do it better."

Yes, where do I mention YOU in that sentence?

SOMEONE is a pronoun, not a PROPER noun.

YOU weren't mentioned, mate.

Okay, off to your lawyer.

Again, much success with your Ruckus, and be safe out there on the roadways.

 

[leslie82]

Hey, I'm looking for insight here (not judgement) for something that appears to be a gray area for me (ie, why I am here asking a question on this forum). The Ruckus was secured in the vehicle well and never moved once in transit and the associate did help my father and I maneuver it into place in our final adjustments. It is highly unlikely, if being layed on its side one way or another is the cause of the issue, that it has anything to do with the impact force of driving or the bike moving while driving. Most likely, if the issue is linked to being layed on its side, fluids moved from one place to another on the scooter. To assume that removing the gasoline would be enough to insure this not be an issue, at least for an average human with little knowledge of the mechanics of engines on bikes, is not stupid. How many average scooter purchasers would even think to remove the gasoline in this situation? I checked my owner's manual and spoke to Honda directly and nothing in their company literature about safe transportation of their motorcycles or scooters states a single thing about the risk involved with laying one on its side. This should be outlined somewhere, but it's not.

You're getting insight.

 

[leslie82]

This is my first Ruckus, first motorized cycle of any kind, and I don't own a vehicle larger than a sedan. With my limited knowledge of engines, and zero input from the sales staff, of course I was going to go out and buy a trailer specifically designed for a scooter and a mini van with a hitch... Also, that particular set up is for people who travel long distances with their scooters. I was transporting the scooter 2 hours from the dealership ONCE. People come to this website for advice and help, not to be ridiculed for not sharing your same keen sense of logic. This is a forum where people ask questions about circumstances that are unclear to them. As an active member of such a website, I would advise you to learn how to more effectively (and empathetically) interact with other human beings.

Don't you think you should have educated yourself on this before buying it? I always ask my brothers or my dad who know a lot about cars before I have ever purchased one and I have never had an issue. Before I make a purchase like that I educate myself so I don't get screwed over. That's called being an adult.

If you don't like the answers in a public forum then don't post in one. No one has ridiculed you. I'm glad you can explain to people who have been here for awhile how this forum works....I think you need to learn how to interact with other people especially online.

 

[leslie82]

I'm ticked off by the manner in which this was explained to me from the get go. To call someone stupid immediately when giving advice is counterproductive. Not to mention the obvious insult thrown in by army judge with a picture of a van and a scooter trailer. No matter what you're undoubtedly going to say about the reality of the situation, that was flat out rude. Of course in an ideal situation I would have used a pick up truck or a trailer, but this wasn't an ideal situation. And my real question was always, doesn't the arrangement of the scooter during transportation seem like something an average person could easly mess up (whether or not they have secured the vehicle well)? I don't care if the dealership doesn't have to do anything in that situation, but from a moral standpoint, after getting the commission from a brand new bike, a few words of advice to a new bike owner is not a ridiculous concept. Hell I had to sign a form saying he told me I should wear a helmet, even though I live in NH where, by law, I don't have to. Even further, this is something Honda forces the dealership to do (the form had about 5 other items the dealership is supposed to explain to me. All items they are not required to tell me, but Honda has made a point to do so).If laying a bike on its side is so commonly known to be detrimental, why isn't this outlined in the Ruckus' manual section about properly transporting a vehicle, in Honda's company literature, or on this form? This is a question I keep asking here, and no one is actually answering. If you don't have an answer, that's fine. If you want to keep regurgitatinng the same buyer transportation responsibility stuff that's been said to me from the first response, you're not answering my question. This doesn't seem like a black and white situation to me. I'm sure paying an actual lawyer $300 an hour would garner me a real answer.

He didn't directly call you stupid. How was that an insult to show you how people move their scooters around that are exactly the same as yours? I think you should probably find your safe space if you're so offended here.

A car dealer does not have to operate on morals. You don't even know that laying the bike on its side is what caused the problem. You said it's a "possible" reason. Maybe you should find out what the real cause of the issue is before you go on random forums blasting at people who are telling you facts and not bowing down and telling you what you want to hear. Obviously it's NOT common or it would be in the operator manual wouldn't it?

Everything isn't black and white. You said it's not in the manual. You don't even know what caused the issue so it sounds like you're just trying to blame the dealership when it's likely something you did.