Bumper Pacing Illegal?

[coworker23]

O.k. yeah. It's been 30 minute stops each day the Officer has shown, he was in his company vehicle and "dress". It makes me happy knowing he isn't getting paid 4-8 hours of overtime for writing a bum ticket.

 

[coworker23]

Is Lidar/Radar not possible moving behind a vehicle in motion?

 

[CdwJava]

Is Lidar/Radar not possible moving behind a vehicle in motion?

Depending on the radar unit, they do have in-motion capability and often bi-directional capability as well (these are often referred to as "dual antenna" devices).

I do not believe lidar is capable of working while the officer's vehicle is in motion. As I understand it they work only from a stationary position.

 

[coworker23]

If given 20 seconds to determine someones speed, in the event you had a dual antenna device, would you personally attempt to get Radar given it's more accurate?

 

[Michael Wechsler]

I love getting subpoenas... easy money!

LOL!!!! That's funny...

@Cdwjava -- your email address is bouncing. Your email provider says that you don't have an account at your current address. Could be temporary.

 

[CdwJava]

If given 20 seconds to determine someones speed, in the event you had a dual antenna device, would you personally attempt to get Radar given it's more accurate?

More accurate than what? Pacing?

If I could get a clear read on the vehicle in front or behind me, maybe, but the radar cone can cause some potential problems whereas a pace is going to be pretty accurate under most situations. Whether it is or was in yours, I cannot say. You say he couldn't have gotten a good pace, and maybe he didn't. But, that will be an argument for the court to decide.

Radar officers are trained to obtain a visual estimation followed with a verification by radar. And if the device is not toggled to the proper antenna or set in the mode that allows for the radar vehicle to be in motion, then a pace might be better than trying to fiddle with the radar controls at the spur of the moment.

If this was the CHP they likely used the Stalker Dual II. If some other agency, then it can be anyone's guess.

 

[CdwJava]

LOL!!!! That's funny...

@Cdwjava -- your email address is bouncing. Your email provider says that you don't have an account at your current address. Could be temporary.

Yeah ... I got a reply that said I was no longer subscribed to this thread. I don't know what happened.

AT&T may be rather finnicky.

 

[mightymoose]

Is Lidar/Radar not possible moving behind a vehicle in motion?

For Lidar the police vehicle must be stationary.

MANY agencies are not equipped with radar... including my own. If I want to determine someone's speed prior to making a stop the only option I have is to pace them. I usually so so for about a half mile to confirm the speed before initiating the stop.

 

[coworker23]

Also, I want to make it clear to everyone this Officer has modified his "argument" after reading my posts online regarding CVC 21055.

It's obvious an officer in his department and/or him himself is reading this, so I want you to proceed with caution. If you want to lie under oath, go ahead, it's up to you to decide whether the conversation which really happened was recorded and whether you want to take a chance on whether that will be introduced into evidence.

 

[coworker23]

Unbelievable. So, I got discovery of the notes I saw the last time at trial, I had complained the D.A. did not provide the notes I have visually seen at the trial, Judge didn't care. Well, I called the Discovery Unit, they came through, got a copy of the notes.

One thing I need to ask of you CdwJava, would you write a Trial by Written Deceleration Statement for a face to face trial?

I never suggested I wanted to Trial by Written Deceleration and that's what these "notes" are described. Now, I am not 100% confident these are the same notes I saw at trial, but it's kinda of moot at this point since it's what is intended on being used at trial. The question is, is his plan not to show?

It's hilarious that my Blog/Questions pertaining to Authroized Vehicle Exemptions actually made it way into his defense, I had no clue of the VC at the time of the citation, nor did I have any concern with whether the Officer broke the law at the time of the citation. I was like everyone else, who cares if you do?

CdwJava, you have described yourself as Nor Cal Cop Supervisor. I happen to be in Nor Cal. If you have recollection of this case #, the Officer, or me in general, and have instigated the change in his defense, I thank you.

The whole argument has been how an Officer can do his job while breaking the law. The Vehicle Code being argued is now nothing compared to the fact this Officer has documented a Trial by Written Deceleration untrue facts which I have proof and utterly flat out lies. It only makes my case stronger that he provided the citation under False Pretenses.

I am waiting on word from the Chief of Police from this department. I am hoping he touches base with me before the 10 Newspaper and News reporters I have offered the story to do.

 

[CdwJava]

One thing I need to ask of you CdwJava, would you write a Trial by Written Deceleration Statement for a face to face trial?

If I was going to a face to face trial, I would never receive a statement for the TBWD so I would not write one. I'm not sure what you are asking on that.

The officer may have prepared written notes for his citation either by writing them on the back of the citation or creating them in another form. At my agency the officers generate notes on the citation and in our computer system, so there may be two copies of documents available for any discovery request. Hence the reason one should often ask for other reports or documents prepared in addition to the notes on the back of the cite.

It's hilarious that my Blog/Questions pertaining to Authroized Vehicle Exemptions actually made it way into his defense, I had no clue of the VC at the time of the citation, nor did I have any concern with whether the Officer broke the law at the time of the citation. I was like everyone else, who cares if you do?

I'm surprised because it is really no serious defense to the issue at hand, so I wouldn't think the officer would care. I wouldn't.

CdwJava, you have described yourself as Nor Cal Cop Supervisor. I happen to be in Nor Cal. If you have recollection of this case #, the Officer, or me in general, and have instigated the change in his defense, I thank you.

I haven't a clue. I do not know you or the agency involved and have made no attempts to determine it. In all y years on a variety of forums, I have stumbled on identifiable offenses in my jurisdiction only once, and that one involved cultivation of marijuana and not a traffic matter.

I am waiting on word from the Chief of Police from this department. I am hoping he touches base with me before the 10 Newspaper and News reporters I have offered the story to do.

You may overestimate the interest of the media over a TBWD traffic matter.

 

[coworker23]

How many times have you attempted to post and it just refresh without it being posted FML.

If I was going to a face to face trial, I would never receive a statement for the TBWD so I would not write one. I'm not sure what you are asking on that.

Yeah, not sure why I got a copy of a Trial by Written Deceleration. I have never asked for a TBWD and everything has been face to face. I received the notes via Discovery after asking for the specific notes he brought to the last trial date (which was continued).

I got the copy of the ticket last month. After the trial requesting a continuance the Judge asked if I had any other motions/concern, I said yes and pointed out the notes. She ignored my request but after re-requesting the info from the D.A. he came through super quick.

Hence the reason one should often ask for other reports or documents prepared in addition to the notes on the back of the cite.

Thank you. Funny thing, when the Judge asked this Officer if he was aware of the Discovery Process and how his organization does it, he said in the 10 years of being an Officer nobody has every issues a request for Discovery on a ticket he provided, and the answer to the Judges question was no.

I'm surprised because it is really no serious defense to the issue at hand, so I wouldn't think the officer would care. I wouldn't.

The only reason for the comments IMHO, are an attempt to reduce the validity of my statements. Since this is purely a he said she said scenario, I can only assume he is not confident of his testimony.

As far as my true defense, he is a moron. What he stated happened and whats written on the back of the ticket, are 2 totally different things. Aside from it being different, the laws of physics, not pertaining to my current defense, prove his testimony is impossible. Only thing I can think of is, as I never put my specific data pertaining to feet, etc, he took a shot in the dark. He continued to state I entered the Expressway at a high rate of speed. Even with the fact of a slower moving vehicle being in front of me, the corner prior to the entrance is a true 90 corner. Aside from that vehicle preventing me from "going at a high rate of speed", anything over 20mph is unlikely. Not sure what the true top speed could be without sliding through it, but it's well under "high rate of speed" divided by the the X feet he claims he was behind me when I entered the expressway (which btw was hundreds of feet closer then what was truth).

I haven't a clue. I do not know you or the agency involved and have made no attempts to determine it. In all y years on a variety of forums, I have stumbled on identifiable offenses in my jurisdiction only once, and that one involved cultivation of marijuana and not a traffic matter.

Cool, and since you are also in Nor Cal, I don't doubt it was relating to cultivation of marijuana.

You may overestimate the interest of the media over a TBWD traffic matter.

I think you mean, Traffic Matter all together, it's a face to face matter, he has shown twice. I can only assume at this point, again, that the "notes" I received are just notes he will use face to face, if he decides to show.

Otherwise it's moot, I don't know how the "oath" is taken within a Trial by Written Dec, (he wrote trail, which is really beginning to make me think this guy is dyslexic, as he claimed to have warned me on VC and imposed the numbers within the notes of the ticket), but if he doesn't show, from what I understand he can't be a witness to the issue.... maybe you could clear that up?

I am defending a case, as you have been advised, with a speeding ticket when I wasn't speeding. Whether you believe that or not is no concern to me. Just think for a moment if this Officer did in fact provide a ticket under false pretenses, why would he do that?

He made it very clear he was unhappy with the way I merged onto the expressway, I agree it was questionable, but the car in front of me was slow as sin, he has already cut me off merging onto the access road to get to the entrance to the expressway and he wasn't keeping a consistent speed/direction. Seemed like he was distracted. The lane which began at the entrance of the expressway from the access road we were traveling on, moves onto an exit to another road. I used my blinker, indicated the lane change, moved into the 1st lane, then continued into the 2nd lane, just in case the idiot tried to merge into my lane, again, without signaling. I don't know if an Unsafe Lane Change ticket would have stuck and within his arrogance he took the law into his own hands and gave me a @#$ ticket, or, if at the time of the ticket, he just glanced at his speedometer while under heavy braking, but now that I have the evidence that he will flat out lie to defend whatever decisions he made in efforts to give the citation, he has no business being a Police Officer. So whether the Chief handles it, or the Press, I could care less.

I hope you don't have the same "gray area" outlook concerning Witness Statements as you do with what we discussed previously.

 

[mightymoose]

So whether the Chief handles it, or the Press, I could care less.

Neither will happen. You will never hear from the chief as the chief has no control over this. This will be resolved by the court.
You won't find any media contact that will have the slightest interest in your story.
You need legal counsel if you are going to have any luck fighting this citation.

 

[coworker23]

Neither will happen. You will never hear from the chief as the chief has no control over this. This will be resolved by the court.
You won't find any media contact that will have the slightest interest in your story.
You need legal counsel if you are going to have any luck fighting this citation.

Ohh, you are assuming I am talking about getting the ticket dismissed, haha, no, not only did he go on record and perjure himself, he also gave me more then enough data to defend my case. The ticket is done as far as I am concerned.

I won't find a media contact that will have a slightest interest? Really? I have not already been in touch with one, that specific "person" is waiting for me to handle this issue offline with the Chief before moving forward.

I imagine the Narcotics Officer which is currently being charged with stealing and selling confiscated drugs just adds to the interest of the Media, since my case is clear evidence of an Officers ability and decision to do ANYTHING unethical to do his job.

I have already been in contact with the Chief regarding the matter of being a citation by one of his Officers under false pretenses. He made it clear when I was ready to come forward he would hear my complaint and look into it. Now that I have clear and concise evidence of this Officers deceit, I am not waiting to win my case to escalate the complaint. Looks like I get to look forward to Tuesday, as tomorrow is a Holiday.

I am going to suggest further review be conducted of this Officers cases and plan on suggesting any and all persons that have been prosecuted based on testimony of this Officer, look into an Appeal based on the proof and facts I have against this Officer.

 

[CdwJava]

Knock yourself out.

If I had a nickel for everyone who made such claims ...

Good luck. And, please, post a link to the media story if it actually happens.

 

[coworker23]

Knock yourself out.

If I had a nickel for everyone who made such claims ...

Good luck. And, please, post a link to the media story if it actually happens.

It's awesome the attitude I am receiving from Officers indicate you both condone this type of behavior.

So, when a Cop is proved to have provided a citation or arrest under false pretenses and malice, what do you think the next step is for the wrongfully accused, aside from obviously winning the case?

 

[CdwJava]

It's awesome the attitude I am receiving from Officers indicate you both condone this type of behavior.

I'm a little lost as to what type of behavior you're even talking about. The "facts" seem a little unclear even to you. I have never condoned violating the law or policy, but I'm not sure if what you are seeing is a misinterpretation or fact. As I said, good luck. And, please, post us a link to any media story that might come from all of this.

So, when a Cop is proved to have provided a citation or arrest under false pretenses and malice, what do you think the next step is for the wrongfully accused, aside from obviously winning the case?

Oh, and you have proven that he knowingly and intentionally did so? You have shown that he made a knowing and intentional false statement to the court with regards to the reason for the stop or the facts surrounding the stop? Even in your own reply you write about things that were somewhat unclear to you. You presume he stopped you under false pretenses ... okay ... I don't see that you have any proof of that, but perhaps the objective facts were lost in the hyperbole.

In any event, I'd still be curious if the media gives a whit about it. Maybe they will, but, in my experience they aren't going to spend any ink or air time on a disgruntled driver arguing a traffic citation.

 

[coworker23]

I'm a little lost as to what type of behavior you're even talking about. The "facts" seem a little unclear even to you. I have never condoned violating the law or policy, but I'm not sure if what you are seeing is a misinterpretation or fact. As I said, good luck. And, please, post us a link to any media story that might come from all of this.


Oh, and you have proven that he knowingly and intentionally did so? You have shown that he made a knowing and intentional false statement to the court with regards to the reason for the stop or the facts surrounding the stop? Even in your own reply you write about things that were somewhat unclear to you. You presume he stopped you under false pretenses ... okay ... I don't see that you have any proof of that, but perhaps the objective facts were lost in the hyperbole.

In any event, I'd still be curious if the media gives a whit about it. Maybe they will, but, in my experience they aren't going to spend any ink or air time on a disgruntled driver arguing a traffic citation.

Whether the Media gives a Whit, isn't my priority. I'm certainly not in the business of putting a target on my back, considering you and other Officers overall attitude, obviously bias against the innocent, and lack of concern for colleagues which will do anything unethical to do their jobs, makes me caution moving forward with the Press. The Chief of Police and getting it rectified internally has always been my priority, which is why I emailed him a day after I received the citation and stated I would be issuing a complaint well before even researching my defense.

1. The testimony which he puts down within the statement contradicts itself, i.e. saying you are doing one thing, when later saying something else which makes point A impossible. Even without the written fabricated conversation, his testimony is easily argued.

2. The fact he has flat out falsified and fabricated statements puts his character and integrity into question, which leads to 3,

3. None of his testimony regarding how or why I was stopped will be believed, so it's a moot point.

As I have stated from the beginning, I wasn't speeding. Whether he provided a ticket by mistake or not is pointless to argue at this point. He has made it easy for me to prove he has no problems falsifying evidence, adding to his "facts" which not only contradict themselves, but are far from the truth, only makes it easier to prove the assumption wasn't a mistake, but a flat out abuse of powers.

 

[coworker23]

It's awesome the attitude I am receiving from Officers indicate you both condone this type of behavior.

So, when a Cop is proved to have provided a citation or arrest under false pretenses and malice, what do you think the next step is for the wrongfully accused, aside from obviously winning the case?

The answer to this would be damages by the way, and again, if it's not handled properly by the Chief, I will gladly post it, or my case with the ACLU.

 

[CdwJava]

The answer to this would be damages by the way, and again, if it's not handled properly by the Chief, I will gladly post it, or my case with the ACLU.

And how do you think the Chief is going to handle it?

What he might do is assign an investigator to look into the matter as a personnel complaint. He can NOT simply decide arbitrarily that something has or has not happened.