Alcohol violations, expired license, and insurance?

johnny m

New Member
Jurisdiction
New York
Hello all,

The other night my son and his friends made the foolhardy decision of drinking a few beers in his car in a public park after dark, while he had a recently expired license. We live in Suffolk County, New York. Long story short, they were approached by officers who gave him four tickets. He fortunately did not get a DUI as he was just below the legal limit, the keys were out of the ignition, and the officer was lenient.

The four tickets were as follows:
-"Did operate a motor vehicle with an expired license" - in violation of 509.1, and the only traffic ticket he received
-"Was under the influence of intoxicating liquor" - in violation of 643-4A(3)
-"Did enter and remain in a county park after it was closed to the public in violation of a posted notice" - in violation of 643-4A(8)
-"Did possess an alcoholic beverage in a county park in violation of posted sign" - in violation of 643-4A(17)

Luckily, the only ticket pertinent to a motor vehicle was the first one (expired license). The latter three were not traffic tickets, but were written on an entirely different form, which I am guessing is related specifically to state parks. The rules they violated can all be found here, under the "Prohibited Acts" section of NY State Park Rules and Regulations: Suffolk County, NY: Rules and Regulations

The officer suggested that if my son renewed his license by the time of his hearing, he would have a decent chance of having the charge dismissed. He intends to plead guilty to the last three charges.

However, I am concerned about the possibility of the last three charges having auto insurance ramifications, although they do not deal with a motor vehicle. Could the alcohol violations be associated with operation of a motor vehicle, even though they are not traffic tickets, since they occurred at the same time as the expired license violation? And could an insurance company have access to state park rules violations, because they occurred at the same time as the expired license violation? If he is able to get the expired license charge dismissed (which the officer suggested he could), is there any possibility that the last three charges can result in a hike to my insurance premium? He is under my insurance plan.

Thank you for your time and responses.
 
Insurance companies obtain driving records from the DMV. I doubt if park violations appear on DMV records (you can call up and ask). However, in recent years, insurance companies have routinely obtained credit reports. Credit reports contain public records like court cases. If the insurance company gets records of those park violations the underwriters certainly have the option of taking negative action upon your next renewal, whether that be a rate increase or a non-renewal.

NY allows non-renewal for underwriting reasons as long as the reason is specified in the non-renewal notice. Your son is obviously a high risk for car insurance (or any other insurance for that matter) because of his willingness to break traffic and other laws.

A non-renewal will result in you having to seek insurance elsewhere and any other company will underwrite you and your family based on the insurance history of the previous company. You will no longer be eligible for the preferred or standard rates that you already had so the end result is that, yes, you may eventually be paying a lot more for auto insurance because of your son's stupidity.
 
Insurance companies obtain driving records from the DMV. I doubt if park violations appear on DMV records (you can call up and ask). However, in recent years, insurance companies have routinely obtained credit reports. Credit reports contain public records like court cases. If the insurance company gets records of those park violations the underwriters certainly have the option of taking negative action upon your next renewal, whether that be a rate increase or a non-renewal.

NY allows non-renewal for underwriting reasons as long as the reason is specified in the non-renewal notice. Your son is obviously a high risk for car insurance (or any other insurance for that matter) because of his willingness to break traffic and other laws.

A non-renewal will result in you having to seek insurance elsewhere and any other company will underwrite you and your family based on the insurance history of the previous company. You will no longer be eligible for the preferred or standard rates that you already had so the end result is that, yes, you may eventually be paying a lot more for auto insurance because of your son's stupidity.

Thank you adjusterjack! I appreciate your detailed response!
I should mention - my sons don't have credit reports or credit scores, since they don't have their own credit accounts.
Can you offer any advice about what would be the best course of action from here, to avoid increased insurance rates? Do you think he should plead not guilty to any of the charges, besides for the expired license charge?
I should have mentioned before... my other son was also in the car (as a passenger), and received these two charges:
-"Did enter and remain in a county park after it was closed to the public in violation of a posted notice" - in violation of 643-4A(8)
-"Did possess an alcoholic beverage in a county park in violation of posted sign" - in violation of 643-4A(17)
He has already filled out his ticket forms as guilty, and was going to mail them in... would this be a mistake? Could this possibly also lead to increased insurance rates, even though he wasn't the driver?
 
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I should mention - my sons don't have credit reports or credit scores, since they don't have their own credit accounts.

I use the term "credit report" to include a variety of background information. Insurance companies use investigative services that can get credit reports, civil and criminal court records, recorded documents, property and vehicle ownership and any number of other internet searches that could even bring up unwise behavior on social media.

Can you offer any advice about what would be the best course of action from here, to avoid increased insurance rates?

No. If it's going to happen it'll happen. My experience tells me that the insurance company isn't likely to get the park violations, I'm just giving you the possibilities.

Do you think he should plead not guilty to any of the charges, besides for the expired license charge?

Frankly, it's always better to plead not guilty to all charges on the chance that the prosecutor will offer plea bargains to avoid the cost and time of a trial.

But that's got to be your decision.

my other son was also in the car (as a passenger), and received these two charges:
-"Did enter and remain in a county park after it was closed to the public in violation of a posted notice" - in violation of 643-4A(8)
-"Did possess an alcoholic beverage in a county park in violation of posted sign" - in violation of 643-4A(17)

Quite a pair of delinquents you've got there. ;)

He has already filled out his ticket forms as guilty, and was going to mail them in... would this be a mistake? Could this possibly also lead to increased insurance rates, even though he wasn't the driver?

Possibly. Your household is underwritten as a single unit. It's like your family is in a boat. One member pokes a hole in the boat, you all sink.

Might be a good idea for both to plead not guilty and take a chance that they can get some of the citations dropped in exchange for pleading guilty to others. No guarantees, of course.
 
Your questions were answered in another forum which you apparently didn't return to.

The charges have nothing to do with driving and do not get reported to the DMV. Your son should have also been charged with having an open container of alcoholic beverage in a motor vehicle which is two points and would cause a big problem.

Are the VTL and other charges being adjudicated by the same court? If so the judge may end up suspending your son's license.
 
Your questions were answered in another forum which you apparently didn't return to.

The charges have nothing to do with driving and do not get reported to the DMV. Your son should have also been charged with having an open container of alcoholic beverage in a motor vehicle which is two points and would cause a big problem.

Are the VTL and other charges being adjudicated by the same court? If so the judge may end up suspending your son's license.

I did return to it, but since someone in that forum reported my post, two of my responses (including my initial thread-starting post, which I edited to add the details you asked for) are presently invisible until they can be checked by a moderator :/
I've been posting in multiple forums because the extra moderation is creating delay in how soon I get the information I need... info which I need asap if I'm going to take the right course of action.
 
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Your questions were answered in another forum which you apparently didn't return to.

The charges have nothing to do with driving and do not get reported to the DMV. Your son should have also been charged with having an open container of alcoholic beverage in a motor vehicle which is two points and would cause a big problem.

Are the VTL and other charges being adjudicated by the same court? If so the judge may end up suspending your son's license.
The VTL ticket is not being adjudicated by the same court as the park tickets. I assume this is a good thing.
Thank you Highwayman!
 
I deleted your other post because it's the same topic as this one and all of the issues regarding this topic need to remain in the same thread to keep all the information in one place. Please do not open new threads on this topic. They will only be deleted. The same goes for other forum sites which may explain why you have a problem there.
 
I deleted your other post because it's the same topic as this one and all of the issues regarding this topic need to remain in the same thread to keep all the information in one place. Please do not open new threads on this topic. They will only be deleted. The same goes for other forum sites which may explain why you have a problem there.

Understood - it won't happen again. I'll ask a new question here instead.

My son who wasn't behind the wheel originally had the intention of pleading guilty to the last two charges (the only ones he was charged with), so he already filled in the ticket forms with a pen as "guilty". He has not mailed them in.

With all this new info, we are questioning whether pleading guilty is the correct course of action. Should he decide to plead "not guilty", is there any way he can change his plea (since it has not been submitted)? Is there any way he can get a new ticket form to fill out, or plead in person instead of by mail? The ticket form says that to plea by mail, it must be submitted within seven days of the incident. The seventh day will be Wednesday the 18th. Is there an alternative to pleading by mail, so that we have more time to get counsel from a lawyer?
 
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I am not familiar with the Suffolk County criminal summonses. Whatever he filled out can be crossed out with SINGLE LINES and initialed. He can then fill out the not guilty area.

And yes, he should plead not guilty.

The initial court appearance should be an arraignment which will likely be at least several months in the future.
 
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