Sex Crimes, Sex Offenders Would how I was treated be considered illegal?

Disabled Vet · May 16, 2020

I might add.... This 14 fully understands what they are doing as well. You can tell by the wording they are using. So why in the world young lady would you do these stupid acts with a person on the internet? No matter what their age is..... Even someone of your age having talks like this is nuts. I hope you learn to stop stuff like this. You fully understand it is wrong legal or not...…. You need to talk with your parents about these events...

army judge · May 16, 2020

Tax Counsel said:
Again, just chatting about sex itself is not a crime.

Anyone issuing blanket, absolute statements can often result in the person having to later consume and attempt to digest putrefying crow meat.

As a father and grandfather, I wouldn't want any adult discussing sexually related material with my minor children or grandchildren.

As an adult male, I would never consider discussing ANYTHING with minors who weren't my children, grandchildren, nieces, or nephews.

There are things I was taught that allow me to protect myself.

All of the many things added to my credo are simple.

As boxing referees are known to admonish to the combatants before the bout begins, "Protect yourselves at all times."

Alas, these days many adults and minors know little about boundaries.

Heck, look at the adults who get into trouble discussing sexually related matters in the workplace.

If someone (adult or minor) were to ask me (some have) acting in an official capacity I'd admonish each and every one NOT to discuss anything related to sexually related material with minors or adults.

Why?

If you seek an answer to that question, you probably think "just chatting about sex itself is not a crime".

There are many things one can do that aren't criminal activities that can cause your reputation to be destroyed, if not your life to be taken.

Only YOU can protect YOURSELF.

Tax Counsel · May 16, 2020

mightymoose said:
There is a lot more information an investigator could obtain, but based on what we have been given at least a few crimes have likely been completed.

I'm not nearly as convinced as you are that this is the case just based on the info we have so far.

mightymoose · May 16, 2020

PC 272

-
To prove that the defendant is guilty of this crime, the People must prove that:
[The defendant by (act[,]/ [or] failure to act[,]/ [or] threat[,]/ [or] command[,]/ [or] persuasion) induced or tried to induce a (minor) to do either of the following:
-
2. (Do any act/Follow any course of conduct/Live in a way) that would cause or obviously tend to cause that person to become or remain a (dependent /delinquent) child of the juvenile court.]

[A parent [or legal guardian] has a duty to exercise reasonable care, supervision, protection, and control over his or her minor child.]

[A minor may become a dependent child if he or she has suffered, or is at substantial risk of suffering, serious physical harm or illness as a
result of [one of the following]:
[1.] [The failure or inability of his or her parent [or guardian] to adequately supervise or protect the child(;/.)]

PC 288.2

-
To prove that the defendant is guilty of this crime, the People must prove that:
[1. The defendant (exhibited[,]/ sent[,]/ caused to be sent[,]/ distributed[,]/ [or] offered to exhibit or distribute) harmful material to another person by any means;]
2. When the defendant acted, (he/she) knew the character of the material;
3. When the defendant acted, (he/she) knew, should have known, or believed that the other person was a minor;
4. When the defendant acted, (he/she) intended to arouse, appeal to, or gratify the lust, passions, or sexual desires of (himself/herself) or of the other person;
AND
5. When the defendant acted, (he/she) intended to engage in sexual intercourse, sodomy, or oral copulation with the other person or to have either person touch an intimate body part of the other
person.

Material is harmful if, when considered as a whole:
1. It shows or describes sexual conduct in an obviously offensive way;
2. A reasonable person would conclude that it lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for minors;
AND
3. An average adult person, applying contemporary statewide standards, would conclude it appeals to prurient interest.

Material, as used in this instruction, means any (book, magazine, newspaper, video recording, or other printed or written material[;]/ [or] any picture, drawing, photograph, motion picture, or other pictorial representation[;]/ [or] any statue or other figure[;]/ [or] any recording, transcription, or mechanical, chemical, or electrical reproduction[;]/ [or] any other articles, equipment, machines, or materials). [Material includes live or recorded telephone messages when transmitted or
distributed as part of a commercial transaction.]

PC 288.3

- *this really depends on details in the communication. It does not matter if defendant arranges future encounter when minor comes of age. What matters is that the contact was with a minor.

To prove that the defendant is guilty of this crime, the People must prove that:
1. The defendant (contacted or communicated with/ [or] attempted to contact or communicate with) a minor;
2. When the defendant did so, (he/she) intended to commit <insert enumerated offense from statute> involving that minor;
AND
3. The defendant knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a minor.

PC 288.4

- *in two years worth of interaction it is unlikely this was never attempted. It does not matter if the encounter never happened.

To prove that the defendant is guilty of this crime, the People must prove that:
1. The defendant arranged a meeting with (a minor / [or] a person (he/she) believed to be a minor);
2. When the defendant did so, (he/she) was motivated by an unnatural or abnormal sexual interest in children;
[AND]
3. At that meeting, the defendant intended to (expose (his/her) genitals or pubic or rectal area/ [or] have the minor expose (his/her) genitals or pubic or rectal area/ [or] engage in lewd or
lascivious behavior).

PC 311.2

- *one of the above offenses is likely a better fit, but this would be considered.

To prove that the defendant is guilty of this crime, the People must prove that:
[1. The defendant (distributed/ [or] showed) obscene material to someone else;]
[AND]
2. When the defendant acted, (he/she) knew the character of the material(;/.)

Material, when considered as a whole, is
obscene if:
1. It shows or describes sexual conduct in an obviously offensive way;
2. A reasonable person would conclude that it lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value;
AND
3. An average adult person applying contemporary statewide standards would conclude that it appeals to a prurient interest.

PC 647.6

- *again this does not matter that it was discussed as a future engagement when she comes of age.

To prove that the defendant is guilty of this crime, the People must prove that:
1. The defendant engaged in conduct directed at a child;
2. A normal person, without hesitation, would have been disturbed, irritated, offended, or injured by the defendant's conduct;
3. The defendant's conduct was motivated by an unnatural or abnormal sexual interest in the child;
AND
4. The child was under the age of 18 years at the time of the conduct.

[It is not necessary that the child actually be irritated or disturbed.] [It is [also] not necessary that the child actually be touched.]

[It is not a defense that the child may have consented to the act.]

Virginia May said:
We have a 10+ year age gap

Virginia May said:
So it all started when I was around 12; he was in his 20s

Virginia May said:
he and I would private message each other often just to flirt and he'd "joke" about "raping" me and "wanting to put me in his basement" and "use me as a sex object".

Virginia May said:
There was a lot more to it...

Virginia May said:
He did jokingly imply that he'd be willing to meet me and have sex once I'm 18

Virginia May said:
He reassured me countless times that it was okay, legal, and just a joke, and he still does that to this day.

Virginia May said:
Around the time I turned 13, the jokes started becoming increasingly uncomfortable

Virginia May said:
He'd act very passive-aggressive and blame my feelings on puberty or something

Virginia May said:
he flirted with my underage friends too

Virginia May said:
He was a lot more forceful and desperate to flirt with her.

All of this describes the actions of a child predator. If investigators are given this information and know where to look they will likely find a wealth of incriminating evidence and many more victims.

Tax Counsel · May 16, 2020

mightymoose said:
[
All of this describes the actions of a child predator. If investigators are given this information and know where to look they will likely find a wealth of incriminating evidence and many more victims.

First, as I pointed out earlier, just from what we have here, all the elements of most of those crimes, other than perhaps providing harmful matter or annoying a minor, are not met. Second, again just from what we have been given here, I don't see it quite the same way you do. Sure, with additional details there may be more to work with, but we don't have those details.

Virginia May · May 16, 2020

None of these crimes mentioned are things I believe he can be charged for. I mean it when I say it was VERY borderline. He didn't exactly FORCE anything onto me. Like if I was stern and told him to stop, he would. He did act differently, never took it seriously, and made me feel guilty when I stopped and didn't feel comfortable but he didn't really push it onto me, therefore it wasn't illegal.
Actually it depends on your definition of "push". When I say he guilted me, I mean he'd tell me stuff like "you're no fun" "most girls your age can't make up their mind, you'll grow out of it" "your feelings on me are illogical", stuff like that. Pretty sure that behavior isn't illegal, but I'm not sure.
He never pushed me to act a certain way either. Well, again it depends on your definition of "push" but he definitely didn't push me into doing anything ILLEGAL. And we never exchanged pictures at all.
Actually, he was really close to sending an inappropriate picture as a joke (He wanted to print out a poorly made drawing I did, cum on it and send it to me) but that never happened. It probably would've if I encouraged him enough. It's literally this huge gray area. If he did it, he could be charged, but he never did, nor did he push to, so it isn't illegal.
It's so close to being considered illegal but it just isn't. The big reason I came here was that I was told this was illegal and could not find proof in my jurisdiction. I want something to be done about this definitely, but I don't want to take this to court unless I have CONCRETE proof he could get arrested.

About telling my parents or the police, that's not really an option FOR ME right now. Though I feel I should reassure I'm not alone in this situation and if I were going to get him charged, it wouldn't be my doing directly. I wouldn't be the one going to the police. All I came here to do was check for an answer and educate myself and others more.

I know better now. I've learned from this.
I appreciate the help a lot, so thank you to all of you.

Also, as for

Disabled Vet said:
I might add.... This 14 fully understands what they are doing as well. You can tell by the wording they are using. So why in the world young lady would you do these stupid acts with a person on the internet? No matter what their age is..... Even someone of your age having talks like this is nuts. I hope you learn to stop stuff like this. You fully understand it is wrong legal or not...…. You need to talk with your parents about these events...

You do realize I mentioned that this started when I was 12, right? Yes, I'm aware NOW that it's not okay. I don't still do it. When I was younger I had no idea how wrong it really was. I believed that having these talks as much as we did was perfectly okay because he reassured me countless times so I didn't feel shameful in having them.

army judge · May 16, 2020

Virginia May said:
I want something to be done about this definitely, but I don't want to take this to court unless I have CONCRETE proof he could get arrested.

You and the adult you trust can speak with the district attorney (prosecutor) in your jurisdiction about the series of encounters.

The deputy district attorney will make sure you understand what can or can't be done.

You can also speak to any number of victim advocate groups that protect children (and juveniles) from the deviate you encountered, the one who bullied you for two years.

Here are some groups that will and can assist you in helaing:

Virginia May said:
When I say he guilted me, I mean he'd tell me stuff like "you're no fun" "most girls your age can't make up their mind, you'll grow out of it" "your feelings on me are illogical", stuff like that.

As you suspected, that is part and parcel of the grooming ritual those deviates use on their innocent victims.

Virginia May said:
When I was younger I had no idea how wrong it really was.

That is why you should discuss this with a trusted adult in your life, a person you admire, and one that has NEVER violated you or your trust.

As to you not knowing what was happening, don't sweat that.

Those evil creatures are able to beguile adult men and women, too.

From this point on in your life, don't bestow your trust and love on just anyone.

Make sure you trust people worthy of your trust and love.

There will be many people that profess their love for you.

Be selective as to whom you trust and love.

Here are some advocacy groups that stand ready to help you heal:

List of Organizations | SoCal Human Trafficking Events

Home

Yucca Valley, CA Domestic Violence Help, Programs

CSET for CSEC - Stars Behavioral Health Group

SafeHouse of the Desert - End Slavery Now

Resources | San Bernardino County District Attorney

If the organization can't help you, they'll refer you to one who can!

mightymoose · May 16, 2020

Virginia May said:
He didn't exactly FORCE anything onto me.

The does not have to. Your consent is not required. The fact you are a minor and the is an adult whip should know better is plenty.

Virginia May said:
Like if I was stern and told him to stop, he would.

By the time you told him to stop be had likely already committed the crime.

Virginia May said:
And we never exchanged pictures at all.

That would be very unusual, but pictures are not required. The language used could be enough, and based on what you said here it was likely sufficient.

Virginia May said:
It's literally this huge gray area. I

That gray area you refer to is known by many adults as prison.

Virginia May said:
I want something to be done about this definitely, but I don't want to take this to court unless I have CONCRETE proof he could get arrested.

All you need to do is reveal this to your parents. Don't worry about proof of anything. That is for investigators to worry about.
Yes- based on what you described criminal acts have most likely occurred against you AND OTHERS. If you do not speak up you allow this person to victimize other girls.
There is no way to address this without involving parents/guardians. The fact you don't want to involve them indicates an even deeper problem.

Tax Counsel · May 16, 2020

Virginia May said:
The big reason I came here was that I was told this was illegal and could not find proof in my jurisdiction. I want something to be done about this definitely, but I don't want to take this to court unless I have CONCRETE proof he could get arrested.

If you are looking for assurance that he will definitely get prosecuted if you go to the police that's not going to happen since no one here has seen the actual messages (assuming they are still available) and whatever other evidence that exists and no one here knows what the police and prosecutor's view of it will be. In the end it is the district attorney's (DA) office what will make the call as to whether any charges are filed, and the DA can take a lot of things into account when deciding whether to go forward with prosecution. All you can do is take what evidence you have to the police, tell them what happened, and see what, if anything, comes of it. You don't have to have a rock solid case first. It's not your job to know the law and build the case against him yourself. That's what the police and prosecutor are there for.

You don't have to go to your parents first if you don't want to, though I'd hope if you did they'd want to help you.

Ultimately you have to make the decision about what to do about this that's right for you. No one here knows what that is.

Virginia May · May 16, 2020

I see

Sex Crimes, Sex Offenders Would how I was treated be considered illegal?

Disabled Vet

Well-Known Member

army judge

Super Moderator

Tax Counsel

Well-Known Member

mightymoose

Moderator

PC 272

PC 288.2

PC 288.3

PC 288.4

PC 311.2

PC 647.6

Tax Counsel

Well-Known Member

Virginia May

New Member

army judge

Super Moderator

mightymoose

Moderator

Tax Counsel

Well-Known Member

Virginia May

New Member

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