Note or Guarantee

R

Richard31

New Member
Jurisdiction
New York
I was sued in NY court to pay for a business line of Credit that I signed as guarantor.
The guarantee was signed more than 11 years ago, but the business was still paying that loan for a few years until it closed down.
The "Note" has a paragraph that says that it's all under the laws of Pennsylvania, and no other state is mentioned elsewhere, including the part of the guarantee.
I argued in court that according the laws of Pennsylvania the statute of limitation is 4 years and is therefore too late for them to sue, but the judge ruled to go by the laws of NY (with a 6 years statute) since no state is mentioned on the guarantee part.
In my opinion it doesn't make any sense, since the only place where a state is mentioned is in the "Note", and the guarantee is all about the "Note" including whatever it's written there, then why in the world should anyone say that it's a different state for the guarantee while there is no other state mentioned in the guarantee?
If anyone could give me some advice on that, or an idea on how to go from here, it would be very much appreciated.
Thanks,
 
If the matter has been adjudicated, getting it vacated will be a gargantuan undertaking.

You can talk to a couple attorneys to see what options exist.

Bring all of your relevant documents including the recent court pleadings and judgment in order for the attorneys to review.
 
By telling us that "the judge ruled to go by the laws of NY," I assume that means the case went to trial and you lost. Correct? If not, what is the current procedural status of the case?

If my assumption is correct, then your only recourse is to appeal.
 
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zddoodah said:
By telling us that "the judge ruled to go by the laws of NY," I assume that means the case went to trial and you lost. Correct? If not, what is the current procedural status of the case?

If my assumption is correct, then your only recourse is to appeal.
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We had a hearing for a summary judgement when the judge ruled that the statute is not over yet and therefore validated the guarantee. It did not went to trial. (I was prepared for trial with several more defenses but didn't get the chance).
I'm ready to appeal. The question is, on what law or reference should I build my defense in order to have a better outcome. Since I lost the first round, I guess it's not all about common sense...
 
Richard31 said:
The question is, on what law or reference should I build my defense in order to have a better outcome.
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No one can advise you unless the person reviews everything about the case.

You can't get this done by internet discussion sites.

You need a real lawyer that you retain to litigate this matter on your behalf.

You wouldn't go to WebMD to gather information so that you could do surgery on yourself or a love done.

You can certainly do that surgery on yourself, even if it kills you.

You can be your own lawyer because you have the right to do so, but that doesn't mean you should.

Don't trust your finances to strangers on the internet or on a city street corner.

Hire yourself a lawyer, or prepare to get hounded until you pay up.

Your other pro se option is a chapter 7 bankruptcy, assuming you otherwise qualify.

Bankruptcy is the antidote to huge, wealth, asset killing judgments.
 
army judge said:
No one can advise you unless the person reviews everything about the case.

You can't get this done by internet discussion sites.

You need a real lawyer that you retain to litigate this matter on your behalf.
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I agree. I need a lawyer. I had a lawyer for the first round too, and he was 99% sure that we'll win the case because of the laws of Pennsylvania that has a 4 years statute of limitation.
When we lost the case my lawyer was shocked, not less than me, which got me here to try to get an idea or law reference that should explain the ruling either as legal or against the law.
Obviously the details in the contract and court ruling matters, but I think my question was a simple and basic question.
My question was, if a guarantee could be governed by laws of a state other than the state stated on the note while there is no other state listed on the guarantee itself. Is there any law etc that could answer that question?
I believe that this could be best answered by a lawyer, which will probably be the best lawyer for me to hire...
Thanks again for all the responses.
 
Richard31 said:
My question was, if a guarantee could be governed by laws of a state other than the state stated on the note while there is no other state listed on the guarantee itself. Is there any law etc that could answer that question?
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Your question seems to be one best taken to a federal district court to decide.

However, if you have had your bite at the apple and the matter stands adjudicated, you might not get a federal court to interpret the matter.

Again, without extensive research, no one here is in a position to offer you a legal interpretation because lawyers can't practice the law in states in which they don't hold a license, unless requesting pro hac vice status before the court which is hearing the matter.

Furthermore, unlike medicine, we can't dispense legal advice over the 'net, either.

I suggest you simply start out by consulting lawyers in your area.

If any lawyer ever tells you, "You're sitting on a 100% winner here, pal. I can guarantee you a win."

I suggest you walk away from that lawyer immediately.

Beyond the boast, litigants don't WIN in court, they prevail.

A trial isn't an athletic competition that has a winner, or a loser.
 
army judge said:
Furthermore, unlike medicine, we can't dispense legal advice over the 'net, either.
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OK. I turned to this forum since I believed that there is probably a law that makes this thing clear on the common sense side and I wanted to know more about it.
I thought that's what this site stands for.
 
Richard31 said:
The question is, on what law or reference should I build my defense in order to have a better outcome. Since I lost the first round, I guess it's not all about common sense...
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No, it's about law. This one:

2017 New York Laws :: CVP - Civil Practice Law & Rules :: Article 2 - (Civil Practice Law & Rules) LIMITATIONS OF TIME :: 202 - Cause of action accruing without the state.

Unfortunately, the cause of action occurred in NY (right?) so this statute might not apply.

It's a starting point, however, in your discussions with an attorney.
 
There is no way to speak intelligently about how you should structure your appeal without reading the court's ruling on the summary judgment motion, reading the briefs that led to that ruling, and knowing the relevant facts.

I could link you to some general concepts about choice of law principles, but there's no simple answer that will tell you what you need to know or compel a reversal in your favor.
 
Richard31 said:
I turned to this forum since I believed that there is probably a law that makes this thing clear on the common sense side and I wanted to know more about it.
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You HIRED an attorney.

Your attorney should be able to explain the ruling handed down in the matter for which you retained legal services.

If you think the attorney was incompetent, or failed to zealously represent your interests, you can file a complaint with agency in the state where the attorney is licensed.
 
zddoodah said:
I could link you to some general concepts about choice of law principles, but there's no simple answer that will tell you what you need to know or compel a reversal in your favor.
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Such links would be very much appreciated. It will for sure help me understand the situation better.
 
army judge said:
Your attorney should be able to explain the ruling handed down in the matter for which you retained legal services.
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Yes. He explained me that this ruling makes no sense since the Note says clearly that everything should be governed by the laws of Pennsylvania. (Quote: Governing law, the construction, interpretations and enforcement of this Note shall be governed by the internal laws of Pennsylvania, excluding its principles of conflict of laws.)

​
 
On the chance that the judge made an error you will have to find NY appellate case decisions that contradict his rulings.

Case law research is difficult and time consuming. If you want to try it go to Google Scholar, select NY courts, and in the search parameters put in whatever phrase or word you think might bring up appropriate cases. When the cases come up you'll have to read the lengthy discussions and conclusions which are written in arcane and esoteric language.

Read a few and you'll quickly learn why it's best to have a lawyer do it.
 
Richard31 said:
Such links would be very much appreciated.
Click to expand...

Here you go.

Richard31 said:
It will for sure help me understand the situation better.
Click to expand...

Maybe it will; maybe it won't. What it will do is give you basic insight into an area of law that even a lot of lawyers don't understand because they don't encounter this sort of thing on a regular basis.

The most basic thing to understand is that a court in State X will apply State X law to all issues before it unless one of the parties convinces the court that some other state's laws should govern a particular issue. The second thing to understand is that, while a court might apply another state's substantive law when interpreting a contract, it may not apply that other state's laws to procedural matters, and it's possible that the statute of limitations is regarded as a procedural issue under NY law concerning conflicts of laws.
 
Richard31 said:
Yes. He explained me that this ruling makes no sense since the Note says clearly that everything should be governed by the laws of Pennsylvania. (Quote: Governing law, the construction, interpretations and enforcement of this Note shall be governed by the internal laws of Pennsylvania, excluding its principles of conflict of laws.)

​
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My GUESS is that once you traveled to NY to "defend" the RIDICULOUS lawsuit you voluntarily submitted to the jurisdiction of NY state.

Once that occurred, the NY court somehow bootstrapped its ability to use NY law, rather than the laws of Pennsylvania.

What should have occurred, if you chose to defend the silly lawsuit, is petition the federal court to have the NY state case removed to federal jurisdiction.

If you want to KNOW more, visit your lawyer and ask him/her about that.

NOTE: It also occurs to me that if the amount of note was $10,000, but the borrower had been paying against th note, that money should be offset against the 10K,, reducing any alleged balance owed.

(Was it a promissory note???)

If not, what kind of "note" did you sign?

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Was this case adjudicated in a NY small claims court?

What was the amount in dispute?

What is the amount of the NY state judgment?

How were you served notice of this lawsuit?
 

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