Juvenile Crime juvenile car search

[jerry404]

Jurisdiction

Wisconsin

Can police search a minor's car because of an empty pack of cigarettes?

 

[adjusterjack]

Obviously they CAN do it if they DID do it.

If you want to know whether the search complied with the 4th Amendment you'll have to provide a lot more details about the reason for the stop and what ensued.

 

[jerry404]

Obviously they CAN do it if they DID do it.

If you want to know whether the search complied with the 4th Amendment you'll have to provide a lot more details about the reason for the stop and what ensued.

My sixteen year old son was driving my car(Father) to his sisters house to spend the night.
The police confronted him and noticed empty packs of cigarettes in the car.
With this, they entered the car against his consent and found a pot pipe in the center closed console.
He was then arrested for curfew and drug paraphernalia.
The curfew charge was dismissed. Citied before it starts.
Does an empty pack of cigarettes (no tobacco in the car) give police probable cause to search the car.

 

[adjusterjack]

Sorry, still not enough detail.

My sixteen year old son was driving my car(Father) to his sisters house to spend the night.
The police confronted him

How did the police confront him? Did they pull him over on the road for a traffic infraction? Something else? Or was he already at his sister's house when he was confronted? In other words, go back 10 or 15 minutes before he was "confronted" and explain what led up to it.

noticed empty packs of cigarettes in the car.

Noticed how? Did they see them while your son was in the car? Out of the car? Where were the empty packs exactly? And what did the officer have to do to see them?

 

[Highwayman]

Is it illegal for a 16-year old to smoke in your city/state?

 

[adjusterjack]

Is it illegal for a 16-year old to smoke in your city/state?

"254.92(2)(2) No person under 18 years of age may purchase, attempt to purchase, or possess any cigarette, nicotine product, or tobacco product..."

2015 Wisconsin Statutes & Annotations :: 254. Environmental health. :: 254.92 Purchase or possession of cigarettes or tobacco products by person under 18 prohibited.

I'd still like to know the whole story because a court will look at the whole story to determine if the officer's search of the console was legit.

 

[army judge]

I've learned that the WHOLE story is never told.
A VERSION of a story is told.
But, I've never, ever gotten the WHOLE story.
WHOLE = TRUE

 

[jerry404]

Is it illegal for a 16-year old to smoke in your city/state?

My son was parking my car (I smoke) at his sisters house when a police car came and approached him because he was in front of a dumpster. He got out of the car to check the front for a noise he heard.
The cop approached him to advise him not to park there.
Two other cops arrived and as he was outside the car with the car door closed, they saw empty packs of cigarettes in the car.
They then opened the door and entered the car.
Searching the car, they determined the packs empty but continued the search.
In the center closed console, they located a pipe and arrested him.
It is illegal to have tobacco for a minor but am empty pack has no tobacco and he was not charged with tobacco. Curfew was dismissed because it starts at 11:30 PM and it was 10:36 PM
They stated they were looking for more tobacco but there wasn't any.
Is there probable cause and do you know any cases where a cop searched a minor 's car because of empty cigarette packs.
We filed a motion to suppress but the judge won't rule till trial.

 

[army judge]

We filed a motion to suppress but the judge won't rule till trial.

That's how the system works, mate.
You cannot rush them.
Once they nab you, you play by their rules.
Good news for your son, he's in Juvie Court.

Once the authorities have completed their investigative probing, the case will very likely be dismissed.

The only issue is that "pipe" and what it was found to have contained.

Otherwise, I don't see an illegal search, because the stories told by the police present will substantiate their every action.

I suspect it might even be found that the kid reluctantly allowed or agreed to the search.

Oddly enough, a juvenile can't give such permission.

That's why you wait patiently and see what is revealed at the next hearing.

I predict the pipe will eventually be problematic for someone.

Hmmm, you did say the kid was driving your car, right?

 

[jerry404]

That's how the system works, mate.
You cannot rush them.
Once they nab you, you play by their rules.
Good news for your son, he's in Juvie Court.

Once the authorities have completed their investigative probing, the case will very likely be dismissed.

The only issue is that "pipe" and what it was found to have contained.

Otherwise, I don't see an illegal search, because the stories told by the police present will substantiate their every action.

I suspect it might even be found that the kid reluctantly allowed or agreed to the search.

Oddly enough, a juvenile can't give such permission.

That's why you wait patiently and see what is revealed at the next hearing.

I predict the pipe will eventually be problematic for someone.

Hmmm, you did say the kid was driving your car, right?

He was driving my car (father).
The judge won't schedule a hearing on our motion but wants to wait for the trial.
This trial will cost him $1000.if he loses and the fine is $200.
Need to know if there is cases like this to present as case law

 

[army judge]

He was driving my car (father).
The judge won't schedule a hearing on our motion but wants to wait for the trial.
This trial will cost him $1000.if he loses and the fine is $200.
Need to know if there is cases like this to present as case law

I've never heard of someone, especially a minor, being charged for a trial in juvenile court.

I suggest you meet with three local attorneys who indicate they handle juvenile court cases.

Don't worry about costs, as the initial consultation is normally offered at no charge.

From what you've stated, you don't understand what you're being told, or something is unusual.

Either way, the Internet is limited in cases that are somewhat complicated. Your kid's case appears to be complex.

 

[Highwayman]

From my perspective the search was legal. As long as the possession of tobacco is not legal for your son then I see no issue with the search, even if the cigarette packs were empty. That could indicate that he was hiding the contraband elsewhere or had more cigarette packs in other areas of the car.

If I stop someone and I see an empty pistol holster on the seat that tells me that there could be a gun in that car and I can search anywhere a pistol could be hidden.

Of course, judges are all different - some liberal and some conservative, all with somewhat different personalities and thoughts on the law. No one can guess how a judge will rule, but based on the facts as you presented them I see no problems with the search.

Shame on you for leaving your drug paraphernalia in a vehicle that you give your son to use.

 

[army judge]

I agree with, Highwayman, based upon what's been posted the search wasn't illegal.

The plain view doctrine gave way to other actions.

The arrest could be problematic.

My opinion doesn't matter.
The presiding judge will eventually rule.