Ask a Legal Question
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    6
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Rent Rooms, in House, Separately 30 Day Notice & 1946.1(c)?

    Jurisdiction / State: California

    Owner lives in a 4-bedroom house and rents 3 other rooms (1 currently empty) separately, in a non-rent control city.

    The 2 Tenants have each been there for over 2 years—each having their own month-to-month agreement.

    Under CA Civil Code 1946.1(c), can the owner rent out the empty room (3rd room) to a new tenant (on a month-to-month agreement) and shortly thereafter (a few days) give a “30 Day Notice to Terminate Tenancy" to one of the other tenants, that has been there for over 2 years?

    Do they all have to be on the same lease?

    Does the new tenant have to live there a certain length of time, in order to give 30 day notice to the other tenant that has been there for over 2 years?

    "1946.1 (c) Notwithstanding subdivision (b), an owner of a residential dwelling giving notice pursuant to this section shall give notice at least 30 days prior to the proposed date of termination if any tenant or resident has resided in the dwelling for less than one year."

    TIA
    Last edited by Marvin8; 04-23-2012 at 06:36 PM.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Samaritan & Scholar
    army judge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Pago Pago
    Posts
    12,896
    Thanks
    155
    Thanked 1,399 Times in 1,383 Posts
    The owner can give any tenant on a month to month tenancy a 30 day notice at any time, notwithstanding any other tenant. A tenant is free to do the same. The term of a tenancy has nothing to do with terminating that tenancy.

    It's simple, mate, don't over think it.

    Sent from my iPad2 using Tapatalk HD
    U C a physician 4 your medical issues. U should C a lawyer 4 your legal issues!

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to army judge For This Useful Post:

    Marvin8 (04-24-2012)

  4. #3

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    6
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Thank you for replying.

    However in California as of 2007, "CA Civil Code 1946.1(b) An owner of a residential dwelling giving notice pursuant to this section shall give notice at least 60 days prior to the proposed date of termination. A tenant giving notice pursuant to this section shall give notice for a period at least as long as the term of the periodic tenancy prior to the proposed date of termination."

    However I am hoping by having a new tenant sign a month-to-month agreement first, I can then give the over 2 year tenant the 30 day notice (C.A.R. Form NTT, Revised 11/07) per CA Civil Code 1946.1(c).

    I wanted to add to my first post:

    CA Association of Realtors – Notice of Termination of Tenancy (C.A.R. Form NTT, Revised 11/07) . . . “You have or another tenant or resident has resided in the Premises for less than one year. Your tenancy, if any, in the Premises is terminated 30 days from service of this Notice . . . “
    Last edited by Marvin8; 04-24-2012 at 12:45 AM.

  5. #4
    Super Moderator Samaritan & Scholar
    army judge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Pago Pago
    Posts
    12,896
    Thanks
    155
    Thanked 1,399 Times in 1,383 Posts
    You can accomplish the same thing by raising the rent by $500, or any crazy amount the loser won't want to pay.

    The deadbeat will hotfoot it outta there quicker than 30 days.

    That's the statute, but if you both agree, it can be 1 day.

    There's more than one way to legally skin the cat.

    What are you trying to accomplish?

    You don't have to be a supreme court justice to terminate a tenancy, if you both agree.




    Sent from my iPad2 using Tapatalk HD
    U C a physician 4 your medical issues. U should C a lawyer 4 your legal issues!

  6. #5

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    6
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I do not want this tenant to win in court, saying she has lived here for more than one year and is entitled to a 60 day notice.

    I just want to make sure the above scenario (moving a new tenant in, before giving the old tenant the 30 day notice) gives me the legal right to serve the 30 day notice, rather than a 60 day notice. Given the above scenario is there anything the old tenant can justify me having to give her a 60 day notice, rather than a 30 day notice?

    Also from CA Dept of Consumer Affairs;

    “A landlord can end a periodic tenancy (for example, a month-to-month tenancy) by giving the tenant proper advance written notice. Your landlord must give you 60 days advance written notice that the tenancy will end if you and every other tenant or resident have lived in the rental unit for a year or more.201 However, the landlord must give you 30 days advance written notice in either of the following situations:

    Any tenant or resident has lived in the rental unit less than one year;202 or
    • The landlord has contracted to sell the rental unit to another person who intends to occupy it for at least a year after the tenancy ends. In addition, all of the following must be true in order for the selling landlord to give you a 30-day notice”

    And;

    "Your landlord must give you at least 60 days'; advance notice if the rent increase is greater than 10 percent."
    Last edited by Marvin8; 04-24-2012 at 04:56 AM.

  7. #6
    Super Moderator Samaritan & Scholar
    army judge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Pago Pago
    Posts
    12,896
    Thanks
    155
    Thanked 1,399 Times in 1,383 Posts
    Okay, I see your unique CA problem.
    I forgot, things are somewhat tenant friendly in your state.

    Why wait until you get a new tenant?
    If you want someone out, the sooner you serve the 60 day notice, the sooner it ends.
    Don't wait for the new tenant, and give your tenant a reason to fight the termination.
    She/he probably won't prevail,but in your state things are screwy. Why risk it?

    The 60-day notice can only be used to terminate a month-to-month tenancy of a year or more. It cannot be used to terminate a fixed term lease agreement. Remember, you must not accept any rent payments to cover any period of time after the expiration of the notice date. If your tenant pays rent to cover a period of time after the expiration of the 60 days, you must return it immediately via certified mail to avoid a waiver of the 60-day notice.

    Now, you need to know that the tenant doesn't have to leave once you serve the 60 day notice.
    The deadbeat can ignore the notice.
    You then have to go the route of eviction.
    So, the 60 day notice isn't an ironclad way to rid your premises of the deadbeat.
    A eviction can add another 45-90 days to the entire process, plus the court costs, filing fees, and process service fees!!!
    Then there's your time, effort, and all the headache attendant to the eviction process.
    You're trying to use the law as if it's going to work magic.
    Have you tried to discuss your desires with your tenant?
    If your tenant is troublesome, or disturbs the quiet enjoyment of the property, it might be easier Togo directly for eviction.
    But, if it's personality and other human issues at play, anything can go wrong.

    See if you can agree to her/his voluntary departure, and reduce it to writing.

    Then you both sign.

    Things can still get off track, but you now have proof for court.

    There is no way to get her/him out, if they refuse to leave voluntarily, unless a judge orders the deadbeat out!!!!
    Last edited by army judge; 04-24-2012 at 05:11 AM.
    U C a physician 4 your medical issues. U should C a lawyer 4 your legal issues!

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to army judge For This Useful Post:

    Marvin8 (04-24-2012)

  9. #7

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    6
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I want to serve the 30 day notice, to get the old tenant out sooner. I do not want her to stay 60 days. I rather give her shorter notice. Less time to plot to get back at me or fight. Just enough time to find another place, in my way of thinking.

    I have a new tenant that wants to move in already. The new tenant will allow me to serve the 30 day notice, to my understanding.
    Last edited by Marvin8; 04-24-2012 at 05:31 AM.

  10. #8
    Super Moderator Samaritan & Scholar
    army judge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Pago Pago
    Posts
    12,896
    Thanks
    155
    Thanked 1,399 Times in 1,383 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin8 View Post
    I want to serve the 30 day notice, to get the old tenant out sooner. I do not want her to stay 60 days.

    I have a new tenant that wants to move in already. The new tenant will allow me to serve the 30 day notice, to my understanding.
    Yes, but the notice is useless if the tenant ignores it!
    It doesn't matter if it's 30 or 60, if the tenant doesn't voluntarily leave.

    You'll still have to evict the tenant, if they ignore the notice.

    The notice isn't a legal order.
    It's simply your request.
    The deadbeat can ignore it, and most of them usually do.
    They also STOP paying rent at this point.
    That's why a negotiated agreement and an incentive to leave works best.
    However,people even abuse those!
    U C a physician 4 your medical issues. U should C a lawyer 4 your legal issues!

  11. #9
    Registered User Samaritan & Scholar
    mightymoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Hanford, CA
    Posts
    5,808
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 540 Times in 536 Posts
    No, bringing in a new tenant does not create a shortcut around the 60 day requirement. What you would have is two tenants requiring 60 day notice and one tenant requiring 30 days.
    However, you could give a 30 day notice and just hope the tenant doesn't know any better, but if the tenant refuses to leave you will be at square one 30 days down the road. Best to just give the 60 day notice and not complicate things for yourself by trying to find shortcuts.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to mightymoose For This Useful Post:

    Marvin8 (04-24-2012)

  13. #10

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    6
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mightymoose View Post
    No, bringing in a new tenant does not create a shortcut around the 60 day requirement. What you would have is two tenants requiring 60 day notice and one tenant requiring 30 days.
    Can you please explain your reason why? Can you answer the other 2 questions I have in my original post?

    I put in bold the phrases (situation) that (I think?) allow me to serve the 30 day notice, once a new tenant is in the house;

    CA Civil Code - "if any tenant or resident has resided in the dwelling for less than one year."

    CA Dept of Consumer Affairs - "if you and every other tenant or resident have lived in the rental unit for a year or more. However, the landlord must give you 30 days advance written notice in either of the following situations: • Any tenant or resident has lived in the rental unit less than one year;"

    CA Association of Realtors – “You have or another tenant or resident has resided in the Premises for less than one year. "
    Last edited by Marvin8; 04-24-2012 at 10:27 AM.

  14. #11

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    6
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    (couldn't edit last post)

    None of the above sources mentions all tenants must be under the same month-to-month agreement.

    Would you have a CA Civil Code or section of law that states tenants need to be under one month-to-month agreement?

    Last edited by Marvin8; 04-24-2012 at 12:50 PM.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-10-2012, 06:01 PM
  2. 30 Day Notice
    By STIMPHONT in forum Other Residential Landlord & Tenant Issues
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-05-2008, 03:56 PM
  3. 30 Day vs. 60 Day Notice
    By gianna06 in forum Other Residential Landlord & Tenant Issues
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-01-2008, 10:43 PM
  4. 30 Day Notice
    By peggyf in forum Other Residential Landlord & Tenant Issues
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-25-2006, 05:21 PM
  5. CA civil code 1946.1 - 60 day notice
    By Josephlaw in forum Commercial Landlord & Tenant Issues
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-18-2005, 12:44 PM

Log in

Log in