Can child choose to not come home even if custody order is in effect

I have primary physical custody. Father has visitation every other weekend. We have shared legal custody.

My 15 yr old daughter decided the other day to go spend the night with her dad. It wasn't his scheduled visitation, but I did not oppose.

2 days later, she informs me that she will not be returning home and that she is moving into his home and changing schools. I of course said "No."

She then informed me that she is "old enough to tell the court" who she wants to live with. She obviously was told this by her father and step mother. She also told me "Fine then, my Dad will just fight you on it."

This whole thing has come about extremely abruptly and totally out of the blue. I do not understand what brought it on. She did not leave my house in a bad mood, or after an argument or anything like that.

Previously, she had been having a lot of "issues" with the step mother. Verbal abuse, emotional abuse and it had started getting somewhat physical. My daughter had stopped visitting her dad for this reason. He did nothing about the situation and would basically make my daughter feel like it was her fault that she was being treated so badly. He never stood up for her or protected her during these situations. Most times, according to my daughter, he would act as though nothing at all was happening, even if he was in the same room. I have 2 other children as well and they both say the same thing.

2 days prior to this visit, she had a "situation" with the step mother and so she was upset with her father and the step mother.

This is partly why I am so confused as to what is going on. She went from not wanting to visit at all, to wanting to move there with no valid reasons to do so.

There are many reasons why I know for a fact that it is not in her best interest to live with her father. I can explain it all later on, if need be.

My question as of now though, is what can or should I do?

Since she is 15, will they look at it as a runaway, where the court will not get involved and will not make her return home? Or, does the custody order still prevail?

My daughter will not answer me via text, nor return my calls.

His court ordered weekend visit ends today 8/14.

Take your existing court order, call the police and ask them to meet you at dad's house or her school.

The existing court order is what must be obeyed.

I also suggest you talk to a good lawyer.

You need to prepare for the coming court battle.

Your lawyer can advise you further.

As far as the 15 year old, she is required to live with you.

If she persists in disobeying you, she could be subject to action before the juvenile court. That is, if you decide to pursue that angle.

By the way, dad's actions could potentially harm any chances to obtain custody. He's always free to ask the court to hear him. But, his behavior is bordering on contempt of the court order. It also could eventually be seen as interference with parental control or encouraging the delinquency of a child. I can't say that will happen. I can say I've seen it happen.

The police will not get involved with a civil matter.

I'll assume I have to file contempt.

One on hand I worry about a court battle, but on the other I don't.
I have many valid points against them, but they have a clan/family of liars who will walk into court and say anything on a whim.

army judge said:

By the way, dad's actions could potentially harm any chances to obtain custody. He's always free to ask the court to hear him. But, his behavior is bordering on contempt of the court order. It also could eventually be seen as interference with parental control or encouraging the delinquency of a child. I can't say that will happen. I can say I've seen it happen.

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I have plenty of evidence in regards to encouraging deliquency ... it is just that I know it will turn into a huge mess and stressful times that I'd rather not endure. I have been soooo extremely tolerant of so many inappropriate behaviors and situations, just to avoid a hassle with courts and lying "witnesses." I suppose it is time I just face it head on and hope the truth prevails.

I was most worried that the court will not make her return home due to her age. I wasn't sure if the custody order would overpower all else. I know here, once 15 years old, if a child runs away - they won't make them return home.

What? On the contrary - the police absodanglutely can and will force a 15 year old to return home.

Heck, here's just one quick news article: read here

Furthermore, whomever is harboring the runaway can face SERIOUS criminal charges.

I don't know if it is just my county, but I know for certain that at 15 years of age, if the police find the runaway and they say they do not want to go home, the police will not make them go home.

Okay then.

Here is Pennsylvania law regarding juvenmiles and running away from their guardian or parent!

Pennsylvania
Child: Any person under 18 years of age
[Domestic Relations Title]. 23 Pa.C.S. § 5302 (2001).

Runaway: No specific definition, but could be classified as a dependent child. A dependent child is, among other things, a
child who is without a legal guardian, has been abandoned by the child's guardian, or has committed acts of disobedience relating to the lawful and reasonable commands and control of the child's guardian. 42 Pa.C.S. § 6302 (2001).

Pennsylvania
The term "dependent child" refers to a child who is without parents/guardians/custodians, is ungovernable and needs
care, treatment or supervision, is neglected or abandoned by parents/guardians/custodians, or is habitually truant without
justification. Police can take a child into custody if he or she is in imminent danger or has run away from home.

Police must immediately notify the child's parents and can only hold the child for up to 24 hours without a court order.

The child must be held only in a medical facility, foster home, child welfare facility or other appropriate facility.
A probation officer can refer a dependent child for services in the community. If the case goes to court, the court can
send the child home under conditions or supervision, to a relative or other adult, or to a public or private agency. 42
Pa.C.S. §§ 6302, 6315, 6323, 6324, 6327, 6351 (2001).


Runaway youth are expressly named as CHINS in 36 jurisdictions.
In 19 of those 36, runaway youth are automatically considered to be CHINS: Arizona, Colorado, Delaware,
Florida, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Minnesota, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North
Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Wyoming, American Samoa and Virgin Islands.

After a law enforcement or other government official suspects that a young person is a CHINS, several consequences
can follow. First, the court can send the youth and/or family for services without opening a court case. This kind of diversion
is expressly permitted by 20 jurisdictions: Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Louisiana, Massachusetts,
Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Texas, Virginia,
Washington, Wisconsin, Wyoming and Virgin Islands.

There is no state - repeat, NO state - where a 15 year old can choose where she wants to live in violation of a current court order.

A friend of mine literally just went through this. The end result was that the child was ordered home by the court and the father threatened with jail time if he did not comply.

Thanks. I didn't mean to sound like I was answering my own question, or acting like you guys don't know what you're talking about..

My friend's daughter ran away a few months ago as well. She didn't like her mother's rules, wanted to hang out with boys etc etc. She went to a relatives house. She was also 15 yrs old. The cops would not make her return home because she had shelter and said they look at it as the child will most likely just runaway again and they would get called out again and it would just be a repeating cycle. My friend did not have any custody order in effect, as she had no need for one.

So, that is why I was wondering if my custody order with the father of my daughter makes a difference.. Being the weekend, I was not able to get any definite answer as the courthouse is closed and the cops stated they do not get involved with a civil matter (custody case) and therefore would not go out after my daughter for me.

inertia said:

The police will not get involved with a civil matter.

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This is somewhat a civil matter, but the court order has the force of law, and if dad is allowing her to stay he is most likely in contempt of court for violating the court order at the very least. Your state may have other applicable laws such as contributing to the delinquency of a minor, or concealment of the child if he is preventing you from having access to your daughter.

Your daughter can not change schools. From how you describe this I suspect her father is not able to remove her from the school without your consent. You should speak with the school and give them a heads up so they don't get duped.

As said above, if you show up at dad's house and have a valid custody order with you, and any adult in that house obstructs you from having access to your child during a time that is clearly your visitation time according to the order, the police most certainly do have an action they CAN take. They will be hesitant to get involved as they try to steer these matters to the family court for resolution, but it is up to you to stand up and assert your rights. Don't take no for an answer. If they still refuse to help you then make a complaint against the officers.

If you aren't able to resolve this on your own quickly then get an attorney to assist you. The longer you allow it to go on the harder it is to correct.

inertia said:

I don't know if it is just my county, but I know for certain that at 15 years of age, if the police find the runaway and they say they do not want to go home, the police will not make them go home.

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Are you talking about a kid that has left home without permission, or a kid who has been formally reported to the police as a missing person?

If reported as a missing person they absolutely should be returning the child to the parents or else they have huge liability.

Keep in mind that if you know where your daughter is then she is not missing.... but in the future when she gets made and leaves in the middle of the night and you can't find her, report her as missing. The more the police have to deal with her for such petty reasons they more they will lay into her every time they have contact with her.

inertia said:

My friend did not have any custody order in effect, as she had no need for one.

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She most certainly did have a need for one, she just didn't realize it. In fact, she needed one in that situation. Had she produced one the police would have had something to act on.

That said, even without a court order, I can think of a handful of things to present to the adults in that house that would cause them to toss that girl out before I could finish my sentence. They won't protect her when they realize they are facing criminal charges for doing so. They do not have any rights to another person's child. It is up to the parent to assert the rights.

Sadly, it sounds as if you have dumb or lazy police to deal with. Learn your rights and you will do fine.

inertia said:

...and the cops stated they do not get involved with a civil matter (custody case) and therefore would not go out after my daughter for me.

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If you present them valid paperwork with a judge's signature they will make fools of their selves if they claim it is civil. Perhaps you are not talking to the right person. Talk to the police again, assert your parental rights to your child, present your paperwork, demand their assistance, and if they don't bring it up, mention potential charges of concealment and contributing to the delinquency of a minor against any person that obstructs you from your daughter.

Make sure you are taking names, because your local police sound doofy, and you will need names to make complaints.

In that situation, she did not know where her daughter was for days. The police were involved from the beginning and once they found out where the daughter was staying/hiding, they did not charge the family member with anything. They said that since the child was safe, with a relative, and did not want to return home - they can't make her and that was that. It doesn't sound like it should work that way, but apparently that's how it is... around here anyway.

As far as not needing the custody order - she and the father of the child are together and therfore there is no custody order - that's what I meant by not needing it.

mightymoose said:

If you present them valid paperwork with a judge's signature they will make fools of their selves if they claim it is civil. Perhaps you are not talking to the right person. Talk to the police again, assert your parental rights to your child, present your paperwork, demand their assistance, and if they don't bring it up, mention potential charges of concealment and contributing to the delinquency of a minor against any person that obstructs you from your daughter.

Make sure you are taking names, because your local police sound doofy, and you will need names to make complaints.

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I did tell the cops that I have the custody order, but they said it was not in their line of duty to enforce those things, that I would have to file papers in court for the father not following the order. I did call another local police dept just to see if they'd say anything different, but they said the same thing.

As of now, my daughter has been returned - albeit 6 hours later than the time stated on the custody order. My daughter stated that her father's lawyer is to be calling him back tomorrow to get everything worked out for him. I will have to contact a lawyer as well. She told me that she is returning to her father because he said she can so I will just have to keep her by my side for now I guess, to make sure that doesn't happen.

Is there anyway for him to get something drawn up or approved by the court so that they would allow her to stay with him in the interim until a court date would be scheduled?

My daughter has been subjected to major brainwashing over the past few years and any more time with her father, his wife and his family is just bad in so many ways. They will (and have in the past few days) coach her heavily on what to say or accuse me of. She has told me this tonight when she came home, as well as in the past.

Madam, just take your daughter with you to see an attorney and a counselor tomorrow.

You need not worry about your "ex" getting anything drawn up that could legally affect your custody.

Yes, he can draft anything, but it is meaningless until a judge creates an order.

All he can do is "motion" the court to do something.

But, this is where our wonderful constitution kicks in with "due process" and "notice" and "service".

All that means is that he can request, and if he does, you have the RIGHT to be heard!

Until you are HEARD, and a judge has RULED, nothing changes.

See a lawyer and a counselor tomorrow.

Keep BOTH eyes on your child!

Good luck.

inertia said:

I did tell the cops that I have the custody order, but they said it was not in their line of duty to enforce those things, that I would have to file papers in court for the father not following the order. I did call another local police dept just to see if they'd say anything different, but they said the same thing.

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http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/23/00.053.023.000..HTM

Show them this. Note sections (f) and (g).
This does not mean that police will make an arrest in such a situation, in fact I suspect it is very unlikely without more serious circumstances, but they most certainly can issue a citation at the very least and let the offender face the court for contempt charges every single time this occurs.
Section (f) should take the wind out of their sails if they insist they don't have authority to act.

Just to be clear- there is a procedure for filing a civil contempt claim when the court order is violated, but that does not mean that the police do not have authority to assist enforcement of the order and get your daughter back when there is a clear violation. Even after your daughter is returned you can make the contempt claim to discourage future violations. You most certainly do not have to file and wait through a lengthy civil process to have your daughter returned when the judge has already issued an order.

Let me make sure I understand this. There is a court order giving you custody; the child is at her fathers'; she is refusing to come home and the father is backing her up?

If that is the case, then get thyself down to the courthouse and file a contempt motion. You'll find out that just because your town's lazy cops don't want to do their jobs, it is not, in fact, true that a 15 year old cannot be forced back home.