Toxic Paternal grandparents seeking visitation

Status
Not open for further replies.

lavawik

New Member
My 2 year old son's father commited suicide December of last year. Prior to this he was granted joint legal custody when my son was 6 months old. Before that he was in rehab for 6 months. During my pregnancy and the time of his visitation, me and my husband had many conflicts and a physical altercation with my son's paternal grandparents. They have recently served us with papers for custody/visitation, but was denied custody, even though they acussed my husband of abuse, which is the furthest thing from the truth. We offered for them to come visit our son on his birthday, but they wanted to pick him up rather than come see him (less than a week after his father's death). I denied their request to pick him up and a couple of weeks later I was served. I am against them having any form of visitation because they have proven that our indifference will not change and I do not want our son being raised in the middle of conflict and chaos, but the judge here stated that no law will over ride his better judgement and granted them visitation....there was no due process by the way. Now we're looking to appeal it and go to the supreme court. My question is what can I do about the time in between as far as them not getting visitation until our hearing? I feel this will only hurt my child in the long run and that he should not have to be involved until it is decided whether they will get their visitation or not.
 
God bless you and your son.
I pray for your peace and comfort.
God listens. Ask Him.
May God bless and comfort you always, but especially in this time of need.
 
If they have actually been awarded visitation, you must abide by that court order.

I know it hurts and you're conflicted - but you have to go by the order.

Please do whatever is in your power to get the best attorney you can afford in order to fight this. I must warn you though - it might be a very painful and expensive battle.

Things to consider:

Your child is only 2 - at that age it will be difficult for the grandparents to prove that they have a strong bond with your son...unless they (for example) raised him for 6-12 months of his life.

The animosity and physical altercation - this does not create a healthy environment for your son.

Do NOT agree to ANYTHING in mediation (which is likely the next step). Make the grandparents prove their case. They must prove to the court that NOT visiting would be harmful to the child. At 2 years old, they have an uphill battle on their hands.

Research Troxel and other cases.

And I'm sorry for the loss of your son's father.
 
Sir, I pray that you have 30 more years of servicing our country and our Lord. I will continue to pray because in the end, the Lord knows what is best for my children and I have faith that he will not put them in harms way. Thank you so much for your prayers sir, may God bless you for years to come!
 
Prosperina, I do not have the choice of making them prove their case because the judge that is handeling the case stated that he knows the statues, but he wants me to prove that visitation will be harmful to my child and what my reasons are. I have stayed up past 2 a.m. for days, writing papers and doing research, but I don't believe the judge truely cares about my reasoning. He stated that "no law will over rule my better judgement." My attorney is stuck with his hands behind his back because the judge is not following law other than his own. I have done research on Granville and Troxel, if the judge grants them visitation then we will appeal and take it to a higher court. Right now my husband and I are 11,000 dollars in the hole because of these people and things are getting rough around here. This is money that could be used to put the playground in the back yard or take the kids on vacation or to the zoo....I'm just ready for t his to be over! These people are selfish and should be ashamed of their selves!
 
If they have actually been awarded visitation, you must abide by that court order.

I know it hurts and you're conflicted - but you have to go by the order.

Please do whatever is in your power to get the best attorney you can afford in order to fight this. I must warn you though - it might be a very painful and expensive battle.

Things to consider:

Your child is only 2 - at that age it will be difficult for the grandparents to prove that they have a strong bond with your son...unless they (for example) raised him for 6-12 months of his life.

The animosity and physical altercation - this does not create a healthy environment for your son.

Do NOT agree to ANYTHING in mediation (which is likely the next step). Make the grandparents prove their case. They must prove to the court that NOT visiting would be harmful to the child. At 2 years old, they have an uphill battle on their hands.

Research Troxel and other cases.

And I'm sorry for the loss of your son's father.

I am going to disagree with this advice. What this judge has stated is one of the most blatant violations of both the Troxel standards and due process, that I have seen in a very long time regarding gpv, and its happening in a state where case law is very pro-parent.

Troxel made it clear that a judge cannot override the decisions of a fit parent just because the judge feels that he/she is making a better decision. This judge not only intends to violate that, but has made it clear that he doesn't care what the law says either.

Any orders that this judge makes, before giving full due process to the case, should NOT be obeyed. Is there a risk in not following the orders? Yes, there is a risk. The judge could find the parents in contempt and impose consequences and get angry and rule against the parents claiming that due process WAS followed. However, that would actually backfire on the judge because it would strengthen the appeal. One thing however that the judge CANNOT do, not without putting his own career at serious risk, is attempt to remove custody from the mother.

In addition, since the child is only 2, there is not an existing relationship with the grandparents that will harm the child if its severed. If the parents obey any visitation orders prior to an appeal being ruled upon, the existing relationship will be established, via the blatantly illegal orders of the judge...which is likely what the judge intends to happen.

This mother should have a serious sit down discussion with her attorney on this subject, and if her attorney is not highly experienced with gpv cases, she should also consult with an attorney who is.
 
I am going to disagree with this advice. What this judge has stated is one of the most blatant violations of both the Troxel standards and due process, that I have seen in a very long time regarding gpv, and its happening in a state where case law is very pro-parent.

Troxel made it clear that a judge cannot override the decisions of a fit parent just because the judge feels that he/she is making a better decision. This judge not only intends to violate that, but has made it clear that he doesn't care what the law says either.

Any orders that this judge makes, before giving full due process to the case, should NOT be obeyed. Is there a risk in not following the orders? Yes, there is a risk. The judge could find the parents in contempt and impose consequences and get angry and rule against the parents claiming that due process WAS followed. However, that would actually backfire on the judge because it would strengthen the appeal. One thing however that the judge CANNOT do, not without putting his own career at serious risk, is attempt to remove custody from the mother.

In addition, since the child is only 2, there is not an existing relationship with the grandparents that will harm the child if its severed. If the parents obey any visitation orders prior to an appeal being ruled upon, the existing relationship will be established, via the blatantly illegal orders of the judge...which is likely what the judge intends to happen.

This mother should have a serious sit down discussion with her attorney on this subject, and if her attorney is not highly experienced with gpv cases, she should also consult with an attorney who is.

The only thing I could add: Shouldn't OP file a motion to Reconsider? With her reasonings listed. I realize the judge probably would rule the same way BUT it would strengthen her appeal.
 
Thank you for the advise and I will bring this to my attorney's attention. I just took video of my baby screaming and crying because he did not want to leave for a visit (overnight)...this is not only affecting my son it is affecting all my children and us, his parents.
 
I am in NY and had a temp order against me. I refused to follow the order and was sentenced to 10 days in jail and 3500.00. I too had proof of their toxicity and still this happened. It will continue to affect your family no matter what in the end.
 
I believe with all my heart and soul that if you continue your fight knowing that you are right and you are doing everything you can to protect your child you will prevail! I won't stop until there is justice and my children can rest at night not worrying about being torn from their mother's arms and being put in the middle of all this chaos! You sound as though you have given up, do NOT give up on your child!!! There has to be something we as parents can do to protect our children from thoughs that put our childrens needs on the back burner as they themselves sleep at night with their children in their rooms at their homes! I will keep you and every family that is going through these trying times in my prayers. BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!
 
Lavawic...I just want you to know that both Rushia and Ldij are VERY RESPECTED experts on GPV from another site. I had asked them to opine on your thread.

The advice to obtain an attorney SPECIALIZING in GPV is really important.

IMO GP's should NEVER have court ordered visitation. IMO if a GP actually LOVES a child they would NEVER put the parent/s through such an expensive ordeal as it takes away family finances and HARMS the child.

With the RARE exception of a parent that wants to "forget" a deceased parent loving extended family.
 
Last edited:
Although my child's father was troubled I would have never wished this on him. He had a good heart, but many problems. My son will know about his father and know that his stepfather, whom has been in his life since birth, respects the fact that he has another dad and still loves him as his own. My son won't remember his biological father, but he will know of him. As for the grandparents, this is not an attempt to erase them just because their son has passed. No, it is because of the segregation and the conflict that they are and have been putting my family through, even when their son was here. At a mediation I had with their son, it was stated that the mother was the cause of most of our conflict and that she should allow us to raise our child the way we see fit with out her interference....she did not and will not comply. My child does not have one article of clothing or even a toy from them. I have asked for pictures of their son so that I could make an album for my child and they will not give me any. Also, they have bluntly blamed me for his death. I have been through a lot in my life and have found forgiveness in my heart for people, yet you cannot change how another person feels or acts towards you. We have an indifference and because it is toxic we need to cut all contact so that my family can pursue peace and happiness in our lives. I know this will not be easy for them to do, but it is NOT about them or me, it is about my son.
 
I believe with all my heart and soul that if you continue your fight knowing that you are right and you are doing everything you can to protect your child you will prevail! I won't stop until there is justice and my children can rest at night not worrying about being torn from their mother's arms and being put in the middle of all this chaos! You sound as though you have given up, do NOT give up on your child!!! There has to be something we as parents can do to protect our children from thoughs that put our childrens needs on the back burner as they themselves sleep at night with their children in their rooms at their homes! I will keep you and every family that is going through these trying times in my prayers. BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!

No. I did not give up on my children. I only told you what happened to me during my case so that you could be prepared if you followed the advice of not following the order in the interim of finishing the case. My case is over for the MOMENT. The court did award visitation to the grandfather and I did not have the money for an appeal. I do continue the fight to help other parents.
 
Lavawic...I just want you to know that both Rushia and Ldij are VERY RESPECTED experts on GPV from another site. I had asked them to opine on your thread.

The advice to obtain an attorney SPECIALIZING in GPV is really important.

IMO GP's should NEVER have court ordered visitation. IMO if a GP actually LOVES a child they would NEVER put the parent/s through such an expensive ordeal as it takes away family finances and HARMS the child.

With the RARE exception of a parent that wants to "forget" a deceased parent loving extended family.

The problem with that is that (and I truly understand the gps grief over losing their child) MOST of those grandparents are attempting to mold the child into THEIR own child. If it is truly that the surviving parent is attempting to "erase" the old family, then a suit may be warranted. The other exception that I believe warrants a suit is when a parent leaves their child with the gp to raise, then shows up several years later cause they are "ready" to be a parent and cuts off contact with all the child has ever known.
 
I have a serious problem with a non-attorney, no matter how experienced or well respected on any message board, making the determination on the basis of a few paragraphs by an obviously biased (no matter how reasonable the bias may be) non-legal party, that a judge's decision is illegal. And I have even more of a problem with a non-attorney out and out advising someone to disregard - in fact, disobey - a judge's order.

That's not what these boards are for.
 
I'm not disagreeing with any of the advice given. I don't know enough about gpv to do so. However, I have a what-if question, just to cover all the bases. ;)

If the father had lived with his parents for the year and a half that he exercised his visitation before his death, could that time help to prove that a strong bond exists between the grandparents and the child, and in turn, improve their chances?

Also, OP seems to imply, in a reply to another thread, that she had a case plan with CPS at one time. Depending on the circumstances, could that be used to improve the grandparents' chances? http://www.thelaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46203


ETA: I have to agree with cbg, so I guess I do disagree with one bit of advice given. It's one thing to say what one might do in another's situation. It's quite another to advise someone to do so.
 
Last edited:
I'm not disagreeing with any of the advice given. I don't know enough about gpv to do so. However, I have a what-if question, just to cover all the bases. ;)

If the father had lived with his parents for the year and a half that he exercised his visitation before his death, could that time help to prove that a strong bond exists between the grandparents and the child, and in turn, improve their chances?

Also, OP seems to imply, in a reply to another thread, that she had a case plan with CPS at one time. Depending on the circumstances, could that be used to improve the grandparents' chances? http://www.thelaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46203

The answer to your first question is yes. The answer to your second question really cannot be answered as she only implied that it happened without details.
 
The answer to your first question is yes. The answer to your second question really cannot be answered as she only implied that it happened without details.

Thanks. If that's the case, OP will have a little more info to work with. :)
 
I'm thinking that OP has some splaining to do.

Well, I definitely think there's more to this story than the original post conveys. She says that there was an altercation between the stepfather and the grandparents. If there were problems, then why was the step involved at all? Also, is there an investigation into the claims of abuse against the stepfather, or were they dismissed?

While I'm no expert on gpv, I'm not convinced that her case is a slam-dunk either.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top