Helped Tenant and now she does not leave the property!!

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landlord2k

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Here's the scenario: I made a very big mistake by entering in a Rent agreement
from September/2008 thru December/2008 with a guy that I didn't get much
info from him (credit report, references, etc) to rent my co-op studio apartment.
I completely trusted him. My contract with him stated that he could not
sublet the apartment, and he could not have anyone leaving there unless
I was notified first and also that my studio apartment
didn't have window guards and thus I could not let a child stay there if
I was not notified, etc, etc. I had a hard time collecting the rent from
him, but he did pay the rent eventually.

The big problem happened when in the last week in December I got a call from
a woman saying that she was living with him and she had a 2 years old baby
living there too. She also said that she was living with him all the time
without me knowing it but she was the one paying most of the rent. She showed
me a check that she paid him for 2/3 of the rent. She said she was afraid of
him because he was a drug addict and she would like to deal directly with me
instead paying him.

I didn't want to do any deal with her because she was living illegaly inside my
property. But she looked really a nice mom taking care of her little child
and said she didn't have anywhere to go. She offered to pay me the 2/3 rent
for the month of January and then she would leave my property. I had a hard
time evicting the guy but he left on December 30th, 2008.

Despite the fact that she violated the law by entering my apartment without
my permission I felt symphatetic to the whole story she told me, etc etc
(not to mention that she really looked like a nice person) and I made my
second big mistake to let the woman with the child to stay in the apartment.
But since something was not looking right to me, I wrote an agreement for
January stay only where I detailed that for "humanitarian reasons" (she had a
baby, cold winter, nowhere to go, etc) I would let her stay in my
apartment in January only for 2/3 of the usual monthlyrent and then she would
have to leave. I also made clear in the agreement that she was an intruder in my
apartment and I was just helping her for that month.

I was abroad the whole month of January (she was supposed to leave the
keys with the super on Jan 31st) and on January 31st she sent an email
asking to extend the agreement for one more month. When I arrived in NY
on Feb 2nd, I talked to her and she said she needed to stay
one more month but she didn't have money to pay. She then offered the
February rent by doing some grocery shopping (she had found out that she
accrued a couple of hundred dollars in food help from the city) and also
doing the work to paint the main area of the studio apartment herself
(she said she had the skills for it and had done that in the past) and
to complement she would give the remaining amount as a check she would
receive from the city for dwelling purposes. All that would cover for
the February rent plus the electric bills owed for the months of January
and February.

Even though it was something hard to accept, I made my 3rd mistake to
take that offer (I know, I am really stupid!!). We did do grocery shopping
for the the amount she wanted to pay in the supermarket and at the last
week in February, she said it was time to paint the apartment. So, I bought
the paint and everything and brought to her. She did do some painting (she
claimed to be experienced, which was not true ... but anyway, I just wanted
her out of my apartment at the end of the month, so I didn't bother too much).
I never received the check from the city.

When March 1st came, the day she was supposed to return the keys, she said
a friend of hers was supposed to pick her up and she was packing her stuff.
She told me that she would leave the keys inside the apartment and I could
get them there later in the day. When I returned to the apartment at night, she
was still there with her child and said her friend didn't show up, that she
called her friend and nobody answered. Again, same story nowhere to go etc.
This time I said that I needed my apartment back and I would not allow her to
stay any longer. I still tried to be friendly to her by offering either
to pay 2 days hotel for her or pay a ticket to both of them to travel to
another state where she supposedly had a cousin there. The tickets
would cost me around 500 dollars.
Since it was late at night, very cold and snowing a lot, I told her that I would
come back the next day. I also told her that I would check for better ticket
prices on the internet and I would see what I could do for her.

On March 2nd, I checked for shelters for women in NY area and the airline
tickets which I was willing to pay for her and her son. Then I sent an email
to her saying that I was going there around 1:00pm and I have looked for some
things (she claimed that her CELL phone was not operational since mid-February
and our communication had to be via email which I found out later it was a
completely lie). When I got there at 1:00pm, I knocked the door, rang the bell
and everything was silent in the apartment.
So, I went out in the neighborhood to check for the shelter I got information
about. It was snowing, cold, and I had hard time to find the place so I
came back to the apartment around 2:30pm. I knocked the door again, rang
the bell and nobody answered. I tried to use my keys and the door wouldn't
open. I forced a little bit the door handle and it came off. Then I went to the
super and told him that I had to enter the apartment because I needed to check
the situation there, that the tenant was supposed to leave etc and I was not
being able to open the door. When I reached the window thru the fire escape on
the 3rd floor of the apartment and tried to open it,
all of a sudden I saw her holding the window so that I would not be
able to open it and she was making phone calls using her cell phone!!
As soon as I saw there were people inside the apartment I came down the
fire escape ladder, explained to the super that there were people there and I had
to go to the police. I later found out that she was calling police on the
episode. I really felt bad for the lack of gratitude on her behavior by knowing
that she hid in the apartment in order to avoid talking to me while I was there to
actually find a reasonable solution for both of us. Anyway, I immediately went
to the police station and they instructed me that I had to go to the civil court
to have her evicted from my apartment. I then went to the civil court in the
same afternoon and also stopped at a laywer to get some information about fees etc.

On March 3rd, I started putting together all the papers (contracts, electric
bills, emails, etc) to bring to an attorney. Then, I got a call from police asking
for the clarification on the incident and I explained to him exactly what
happened. He understood the situation and said that he would call her and
would close the case. I assured the officer that I would not go to the
apartment any longer and I would do everything thru the legal system. In
the afternoon, I brought all the papers to the lawyer, paid 425 fee for him to
start the holdover procedure. He also will charge me another 425 if she does
not leave after the termination notice and we have to go to court.

The attorney told me that since I received some money from her it
characterizes a month to month agreement, and a notice of termination letter
has to be sent to tenant before going to court. I understood that by law,
since the contract was from 1st of the month to the last day of the month
and since today is March 3rd, then deadline for her to move out in the
notice is APRIL 30th. So I have to wait at least 2 full months before going
to court.

Now, I need to find out whether I can collect the payment from March
and April and how I should proceed. Let's say what happens if she leaves
the apartment on April 28 (2 days before the deadline) and I have no clue
where her new address is. How would I be able to go to the claim court
to sue her for the unpaid months if I am entitled to it and if I don't
have her new address? I really feel like she has done these things to
me and previously to other people and intend to continue to take advantage
of other landlords (yeah, I know, if there are other stupid landlords
like myself out there).

I wonder also if I got the correct advice from the attorney and whether
there was a better way to have her out of my apartment sooner.

Sorry for the long description. I appreciate any advice.
 
Follow the guidelines for eviction as stated by your lawyer.

You can't get her out sooner. The only way is if she leaves on her own which is unlikely. You have a "professional tenant".

Forget about suing her for back rent. Unless you can tie this lawsuit into the one for eviction (thus saving you some court costs) even winning your judgement is certainly no guarantee you'll ever see a penny of this money. For heavens sake, she paid her last rent in groceries.

Gail
 
Follow the guidelines for eviction as stated by your lawyer.

You can't get her out sooner. The only way is if she leaves on her own which is unlikely. You have a "professional tenant".

Forget about suing her for back rent. Unless you can tie this lawsuit into the one for eviction (thus saving you some court costs) even winning your judgement is certainly no guarantee you'll ever see a penny of this money. For heavens sake, she paid her last rent in groceries.

Gail

Well, I was not that concerned about the money. I could even donate to the Court System to benefit those who cannot afford legal advice. But they would have to go after her for that debt. Otherwise she will continue
to take advantage of those less advised people ( or stupid people like myself , if you prefer ). Even if she will never pay, it's still a pain in the ass for her having the court marshal after her to collect the money.
 
The "court marshall" will not go after her for this money.

It is the Marshall's job to serve her and, if the eviction goes through, to be there to oversee the eviction process.

If a judgement on owed rent is rendered, it would be up to you to collect this money, not the Marshall. They only "deliver" the bad news; they do not collect money.

Gail
 
The "court marshall" will not go after her for this money.

It is the Marshall's job to serve her and, if the eviction goes through, to be there to oversee the eviction process.

If a judgement on owed rent is rendered, it would be up to you to collect this money, not the Marshall. They only "deliver" the bad news; they do not collect money.

Gail

Ok... In this case, it would be a waste of time, money and energy for me.
It sounds like the court system would only corroborate the obvious which means, she has to pay what it is due. As for myself, I have to just
sit, wait, pay the maintenance and the electric bill for her. How convenient and easy is for those with bad intentions.
I have 2 other questions: Suppose she moves to another state. Can I sue her in the claim court in NY or it would have to be in the state she is living in? Also, do I need to find out her new address or I could just provide her name and driver's license?
The second question is: Can I report her to the credit reporting system?
 
The state where the incident took place has jurisdiction over the case.

Someone who is being sued has the right to be notified of this. This is why they are "served" with a notice of the court date; they have the right to respond to this (if they don't show for the court date, you "win" by default).

In order for this to take place, the person filing the lawsuit (you) needs to provide the court with her address. The court will not go to the trouble of trying to find her with just a name and driver's license. They will tell you (when you go to file against her) that it's your responsibility to provide this. Other than the initial filing fee, the court has no "financial benefit" in trying to find out where this person now lives.

This is why many landlords skip the suing for back rent process and look into working with a collection agency. Collection agencies will often work on a contingency basis; they get to keep a portion of the money they collect. Therefore, it is often more of an incentive for them to keep searching (and contacting) the person who owes money.

Continue with the eviction process and when it's complete, ask the court if this judgement is automatically sent to credit agencies. Some courts do this; in others, you would need to forward this information to them.

I hope this makes sense.

Gail
 
The state where the incident took place has jurisdiction over the case.

Someone who is being sued has the right to be notified of this. This is why they are "served" with a notice of the court date; they have the right to respond to this (if they don't show for the court date, you "win" by default).

In order for this to take place, the person filing the lawsuit (you) needs to provide the court with her address. The court will not go to the trouble of trying to find her with just a name and driver's license. They will tell you (when you go to file against her) that it's your responsibility to provide this. Other than the initial filing fee, the court has no "financial benefit" in trying to find out where this person now lives.

This is why many landlords skip the suing for back rent process and look into working with a collection agency. Collection agencies will often work on a contingency basis; they get to keep a portion of the money they collect. Therefore, it is often more of an incentive for them to keep searching (and contacting) the person who owes money.

Continue with the eviction process and when it's complete, ask the court if this judgement is automatically sent to credit agencies. Some courts do this; in others, you would need to forward this information to them.

I hope this makes sense.

Gail


Hi Gail ... thanks for enlighting me with clarification and ideas.

You brought up something interesting that I didn't think about. Using
a collection agency ( I wouldn't mind to give half or even more of what
they could collect ...)

I have few other questions ... I will put numbers on the questions.
I appreciate you helping me again with the answers.

I don't understand your statement: "This is why many
landlords skip the suing for back rent process and look into working with
a collection agency".

QUESTION 1) If I don't sue, how can I prove to the collection agency
that the tenant owe me money?

As I described in the original thread, I didn't intend to do business
with the tenant, so in each of my 2 separate agreements for Jan and Feb ,
I clearly stated that the rent was for that specific month only. But still,
my lawyer says it characterizes a month-to-month agreement. In my view, the
tenant has NO AGREEMENT WHATSOEVER FOR MARCH. Anyway, my lawyer said that since
the Feb agreement started on the 1st of the month, for March it would also
start on March 1st. Since I showed up on March 3rd of the month in his office
to request the termination notice,
and since NY laws state that "the termination notice must be delivered to the
tenant before the beginning of the rental term and requires the tenant to
vacate on the last day of the rental term", then the date on that notice
has to be APRIL 30th (which forces me to wait 2 more months ...). Ok, I will
accepted that.

The "holdover instruction sheet" says the following: "Do not accept
rent accruing after the termination date on the Notice".

So, my understanding is that I can collect March and April rent even though
she has no agreement for those months. She also has to follow the rules from the
last agreement (February) and pay the rent on the first of March and first of April.

She has not paid any rent for March and I don't think she will
pay anything for April either.

QUESTION 2) Suppose she leaves my apartment on April 29th. If I don't sue
her, how would I prove to the collection agency that she owe me March and April
rents if I cannot give them any paper from Court and I have no agreement for
March and April ?

QUESTION 3) Would it be advisable to sue her on the Claim Court if April comes and
she has not yet paid the rent for the 2 months and has not yet evacuated the
apartment? At least I would have her address. But I am afraid that suing her
in the Claim court while I started the eviction process would complicate things
if it gets to the point that I have to start the Court Proceeding in the Civil
Court to evict the tenant.

Basically, if she moves out in March, I will forget the whole thing. But if her
stay goes beyond April, I would like to be able to collect the rents whether
she leaves before April 30th (no Court Proceeding) or after a court judgement is
made sometime in May.

I checked some of the Collection Agency sites and apparently they report the debtor
to the 3 credit bureaus themselves. So that is another good reason to use their
services.

Thanks for your help.
 
Before you consider suing anyone for back rent, you need to ask yourself how will she pay if she loses the judgement.

Unfortunately, simply winning a case is no guarantee you'll ever see a penny of this.

I just went through this last year with a pair of deadbeat tenants who skipped out on us, leaving the place a wreck. I actually found them (they were dumb enough to leave their new lease behind), served them, went to court, won the judgement for over 3 grand, never saw a penny from them, garnished the bank account of one (again, they were kind enough to leave bank statements behind) and received all of $365 as the rest of the funds were SS payments for a dead husband (ungarnishable). The $365 just about covered all the filing fees for the dispossessory affidavit, filing for back rent, filing for garnishment, etc..

Keep in mind that many funds are not garnishable and in some states wages are 100 percent exempt from garnishment.

Gail
 
Before you consider suing anyone for back rent, you need to ask yourself how will she pay if she loses the judgement.

Unfortunately, simply winning a case is no guarantee you'll ever see a penny of this.

I just went through this last year with a pair of deadbeat tenants who skipped out on us, leaving the place a wreck. I actually found them (they were dumb enough to leave their new lease behind), served them, went to court, won the judgement for over 3 grand, never saw a penny from them, garnished the bank account of one (again, they were kind enough to leave bank statements behind) and received all of $365 as the rest of the funds were SS payments for a dead husband (ungarnishable). The $365 just about covered all the filing fees for the dispossessory affidavit, filing for back rent, filing for garnishment, etc..

Keep in mind that many funds are not garnishable and in some states wages are 100 percent exempt from garnishment.

Gail

So, help me on this other front.
If the tenant has no lease for March, how can I tell her that she owes me money while she is staying there? I heard something about "rent demand" from a lawyer. I don't want to do business with her any longer, but if she stays there I want to get paid obviously. Can you please clarify this rent demand thing?
 
In the absence of a written lease, your tenant is still considered to have a month to month tenancy; her "lease" runs from the first day of the month to the end of the month. If she remains another month, the same thing applies.

Gail
 
In the absence of a written lease, your tenant is still considered to have a month to month tenancy; her "lease" runs from the first day of the month to the end of the month. If she remains another month, the same thing applies.

Gail

Hey Gail, I have other questions. She has overstayed and has not yet paid this month rent yet. She hangs up on me when I call her cell phone, she does not reply emails and do not answer the door. I wonder how I can use a collecting agency to contact her. Do you think they would take that task? Also, somebody mentioned something about "rent demand". Do you have any advice on how I should proceed?
 
Hi Gail, my tenant has been served and yesterday was the day when the notice expired and she didn't leave my apartment. I am going to contact my attorney to file the papers in Court now. Could you please give me some ideas of what I should expect from now on?
I know that the attorney will file the petition in court and a hearing date will be scheduled, the tenant will be notified to appear in court, etc. My question is, in the event that I win the judgment, how many more days does the tenant have to leave my apartment? Also, what if the tenant does not leave my apartment? Do I need to file another form to get a warranty of eviction? How does this process work?
 
You are correct that once a suit for eviction is filed, both you and the tenant will be notified of the court hearing. The tenant will typically be served via a "tack and mail" route; that is, they will be sent a notice through the mail and the court appointment law enforcement officer (typically someone from the Marshall's Office) will attach...or "tack"...a notice to the door of the rental unit regarding the date and place of the hearing. That's so the tenant cannot claim (as many do) that they never received the notice.

If they show up at the hearing (and many won't) you both get to present your side as to whether or not they should be evicted. If they don't show up, you automatically win your judgement for eviction.

If they STILL don't leave after you've won this judgement, the next step is that the law enforcement agency involved in overseeing the eviction (again, typically the Marshall's Office in my state) will schedule the actual eviction. How soon this takes place depends on their backlog of cases. You cannot do an eviction without a member of law enforcement available (and really, you wouldn't want to try this alone as things can get physically ugly).

What happens in most cases is that after you win your judgement you immediately go to the clerk of courts office and report this so that the paperwork for the eviction can begin to go through the system. Often the Marshalls Office is located in the same building as the Clerk of Court and/or the actual court room where the hearing took place.

This law enforcement official is there just to oversee the entire eviction (although they can, physically remove the tenant if they still refuse to leave). They won't help in any way hauling out items so many landlords have helpers standing by to do this.

On the day of the eviction the landlord can now legally change the locks; the court has "granted" their request that their rental property be turned back over to them.

I hope this makes sense...

Gail

P.S. When your judgement is granted, double check with the Marshall's Office regarding any particular stipulations they may have regarding the actual eviction. Believe it or not, in some districts an eviction can be postponed if it's raining!
 
Hi Gail,

I am still waiting for my attorney to notify me of the court date.
I have few more questions. If the tenant, does not show up, can she later appeal from the decision so that it delays the eviction process?
Also, how much longer do I have to wait for the eviction date after the judgment is made? I am in the NY jurisdiction. I think 2 or 3 days is more than reasonable.

Thanks for your help.
 
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